Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

in last night's QT, a lady who voted leave said that she is so confused now that she does not know who to believe any more.

We keep coming back to this, the establishment’s credibility and integrity is completely in tatters.

They can’t even organise a TV debate to discuss the situation and to present their thoughts and ideas to the public (Both sides). Pathetic doesn’t even come close.

I was hoping that the Christmas tree she switched on outside number 10 on Wednesday would have a faulty earth. No luck this time.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't accept there should be a second referendum so I have not given it any thought.

IF and it's a big if then the question should be a simple yes or no again.

Anything else is stupid. Although a second referendum is more stupid and dangerous and will divide this country for the rest of every life living today to the day they die.

Be careful what you wish for as one of the main reasons I voted out was because of the closer integration without any checks or balances. Would you be happy to join the Euro? Spend billions bailing out Italy, Portugal, Greece, ireland etc on a cyclical basis? Pumping billions into an army etc?

Plus you have to factor in that you are seeing the EU as your perfect model now. There are already signs that the next German chancellor will have a more Germany first approach. It's quite likely that the next president of France will either be very right wing or extremely right wing.

I didn't vote leave for today. It was for my children.

Personally I quite like children and a United States of Europe exactly what I desire

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Project fear really got to you didn't it.

No, I never listened to all that scare nonsense spouted by the Remain team.

My judgement was solely on the basis of past performance, our comprehensive failure in the decades before joining and our recovery since.

I know how capable we are of repeating that failure, if you want to know why, just look at the politicians and business leaders we have and the mess we made of the Brexit negotiations.
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[Fingers]

We keep coming back to this, the establishment’s credibility and integrity is completely in tatters.

They can’t even organise a TV debate to discuss the situation and to present their thoughts and ideas to the public (Both sides). Pathetic doesn’t even come close.

I was hoping that the Christmas tree she switched on outside number 10 on Wednesday would have a faulty earth. No luck this time.

There was nothing to discuss though. She would have repeated the exact same thing she has said for about 3 weeks now. She is a robot and cannot think on her feet. And he would have just kept asking for an election.

We've been saved.

 

[oldgroaner]

Project fear really got to you didn't it.

It was project reality after all, as we are seeing now

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Fingers]

No, I never listened to all that scare nonsense spouted by the Remain team.

My judgement was solely on the basis of past performance, our comprehensive failure in the decades before joining and our recovery since.

I know how capable we are of repeating that failure, if you want to know why, just look at the politicians and business leaders we have and the mess we made of the Brexit negotiations.
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So you based your decision on the future on what happened 45 years ago?

Ok. Well that's one way of err doing it. I wouldn't do it that way though. And I note you are generally using statistics that project abject failure.

So the past was a failure, the present is a failure and the future will be a failure.

You're quite the Ebeneezer Eeyore arn't you?

Can you see why folk don't buy into such misery?

I do agree that this government is a mess. Possibly the most inept in the history of this country. But that doesn't mean we let them prevent us from seizing the opportunity of a generation.

 

[Fingers]

It was project reality after all, as we are seeing now

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What are we seeing now? What are you talking about.

We haven't left yet. Do you even know what year it is?

NURSE!

 

[gray198]

They've also seen the anger and determination of the Remainers so know how high their turnout would be.

there could be the opposite reaction where leavers and even some remainers have seen the EU as the bully it is and are even more determined to leave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Explaining Norway’s fear of the UK joining the Efta club “The three countries in Efta have to agree on all the regulations coming from the EU, so if one country vetoes something we all have to veto, which means that if the UK enters the Efta platform and starts to veto regulations that we want, this will affect not just the UK but also us as well. Part of the success we have had with this EEA agreement is for the last 25 years is that we do accept the rules and regulations that do come out of the EU, mostly because it is in our interest.

“If, as I understand, UK politicians do not want to be ruled by regulations coming from other countries, why would they accept a country with 38,000 citizens like Liechtenstein being able to veto regulations that the UK wants. That would be the reality.”
Norway doesnt want us....if we are not careful the EU may not want us....and Trump doesnt seem keen...maybe Singapore will like us.????
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

And I note you are generally using statistics that project abject failure.

So the past was a failure, the present is a failure and the future will be a failure.

Don't make assumptions, I'm not using anyone's statistics, I lived through the decades of failure so knew them well at first hand and the causes of the failure.

And I did not post past, present and future failure, I posted that after joining the EU we recovered, being far more successful than in the preceding decades.
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[flecc]

there could be the opposite reaction where leavers and even some remainers have seen the EU as the bully it is and are even more determined to leave

That's sheer fantasy and wishful thinking, having no relation to reality.
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[Fingers]

That's sheer fantasy and wishful thinking, having no relation to reality.
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Now you know how we feel when you guys go off.

Why it was only 4 days ago you comfortably said Brexit was finished.

 

[gray198]

to cut through all the BS. I don't understand why any country, let alone ourselves should want to allow themselves to be effectively subject to control of another. That's the reason I voted to leave. I cannot see why we can't have sensible trading policies with our closest neighbours. The only reason we are in this state is because European politicians are empire building at our expense. You only have to look at the EU buildings and the money spent on them and then compare with our HOP which is falling to bits.All the talk of shortage of foods and medicine is something that's being concocted to keep us under control. To make it a success we need to make the UK attractive for companies to invest here without the red tape of the EU. After all we have a lot going for us. Relatively non corrupt administration, reasonable infrastructure universal language. A major downside is rubbish leaders, but then again if they have to start leading instead of being led, they may improve

 

[flecc]

Why it was only 4 days ago you comfortably said Brexit was finished.

I didn't say it was, I forecast that was likely because I'm sure we won't crash out since neither the government or EU want that.

If May's deal or anything like it is agreed, that isn't Brexit as you know, so it would be finished.
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[flecc]

To make it a success we need to make the UK attractive for companies to invest here without the red tape of the EU.

Why would they come to this small market with difficult communications, high costs and the red tape of WTO tariffs and customs for their products, when they can be in the eight times the size EU without tariffs and customs, so far less red tape.

They sure as hell won't come here for the qualities of our politicians and business leaders.
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[oyster]

Just what is the government planning for?

I am trying to imagine how you go about chartering an aircraft and sending it somewhere saying "Pick up a load of medoicines." - and expecting it to do so, then fly back and those medicines get distibruted effectively.

We already have regular shortage issues when everything is apparently working relatively well. We already have prescriptions pushed very strongly towards generics. We already have short period prescribing for many medicines.

And, if the worst scenario were to come, in which air traffic is difficult to impossible, just how are we going to charter aircraft... ?

(Mind, Hancock is the medical illiterate who said we could get our required vitamin B12 from brocolli. To be castigated in places like the BMJ.)

Hancock also said the government was consulting on plans for chemists to ration drugs to ensure patients can retain access to vital medicines in the event of shortages.

He defended the government’s preparations for a no-deal Brexit but stressed that the potential problems were a reason to back Theresa May’s plan in the crunch December 11 vote.

The Times reported that a consultation launched by the Department for Health and Social Care called for rapid changes to medicine rules to “support the continuity of supply of medicines in a ‘no-deal’ scenario”. The government wants to enable ministers to issue a “serious shortage protocol” for pharmacies to follow, the newspaper said.

It “could be issued in case of a serious national shortage and would enable community pharmacists and other dispensers to dispense in accordance with the protocol rather than the prescription without contacting the GP”.

Ministers would order pharmacists to dispense a “reduced quantity” of the medicine, an “alternative dosage form”, a “therapeutic equivalent” or a “generic equivalent”.

Hancock told BBC Radio 4’s Today that “this is something we are consulting on” and “it’s about having the appropriate clinical flexibility”.

He insisted that his department was “on track” with arrangements for a no-deal Brexit. But he added: “The deal allows us to both deliver on the referendum result but do so in a way that allows both the economy to function but also these logistical problems not to arise.”

As part of the plans “we are working on ensuring that we have aviation capacity”, he said.

Asked if that would mean chartering planes to fly in medicines, he said: “We are working on exactly how we are going to do that, but that is part of the work we are doing.”

Hancock added that there had been work to fast-track lorries containing medical supplies through ports such as Dover if there were problems.

“If there is serious disruption at the border we will have prioritisation, and prioritisation will include medicines and medical devices,” he said.

The government was also “buying a large collection of refrigeration units so that those drugs that can be stockpiled, we will have a stockpile of,” he said.

 

[oldgroaner]

There was nothing to discuss though. She would have repeated the exact same thing she has said for about 3 weeks now. She is a robot and cannot think on her feet. And he would have just kept asking for an election.

We've been saved.

For what? is someone keeping a collection of oddities?

 

[oldgroaner]

Can you see why folk don't buy into such misery?

Let me guess, because they aren't clever enough to see the same factors that defeated us before are an even bigger factor working against us now?
Come on now give us a pragmatic reason other than your optimistic wish that the country will be a a big success after leaving the EU
So far all we have had from you is a big zero on the subject.

 

[Zlatan]

I, m not convinced . as many remainers seem to be,that a 2nd ref would actually give a different result. Yes, we, ve heard the woman on tele from Swindon saying so but with all the BS could easily be staged.We don't know how she s voted in first place. Yes, the majority on here are remainers (for very apparent reasons, leavers need skin like a Rhino to post here) but that has been case all along. I, m only person I know to change to remain but I, ve now gone back again to leave. Think EU has shown its too complex and distanced from us and trips to BVI, Jamaica and now India has shown another side of argument. There is massive untapped markets wanting British goods. (no matter what OG and Co think)
So a question for everybody. Please post if you have changed your decision since March 2016. I have not. I, m less impressed with EU, sick of being told how thick I am, sick of being called racist. I, d vote leave, no deal in an instant.
So all you converted leavers please take a bow? Or are there more converted remainers? We won't know for sure until ref 2.

Was talking to an ex colleague a few days ago. He is best accountant, I have ever known. He ended up director of a very big Sheffield tool company. His knowledge of economics. investing, tax etc etc really is second to none.
He was moaning that overnight his daughter had become an expert in economics and was telling him why he should change his mind over Brexit. He has paid her an allowance all his life, she has never worked and (his words) couldn't organise a raffle. Yet, here she was on phone telling him about ftse and free trade with EU.!!! Sound familiar...
He is another one who knows nothing along with Peter Hargreaves perhaps. Both still insist we should leave.?? But apparently OG, Flecc and Tom know way more.??? I don't think so.
My ex bank manager friend says she would also still vote leave. The one I mentioned about a year ago, who was head hunted for her financial, investment knowledge and worked at Lloyd's before starting her own Investment company.
I do wonder which side has created most bull **. Think its remain actually.

 

[flecc]

So a question for everybody. Please post if you have changed your decision since March 2016.

I've already covered this repeatedly but as usual, Leavers ignore answers.

To repeat, it's not about anyone changing their mind.

A large swing the opposite way would come from two factors.

Many average Leave voters who have become dispirited with all that's happened so far would not turn out in the same strength, thinking why bother when a proper Brexit isn't on offer from our negotiators.

And the Remainers who didn't bother to vote last time through complacently thinking Remain was a certainty and coming unstuck. They wouldn't make that mistake again, being more determined to vote.

Few will have changed their minds and certainly none of those interested enough to post in this thread.
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