Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Morning smile in the Telegraph

Also in the Telegraph

"EU prepared to offer Theresa May a lifeline by extending Article 50 beyond March

You have to wonder what point there will be in doing that?

 

[Woosh]

You have to wonder what point there will be in doing that?

the government has to prepare for plan B which is WTO/no deal brexit on 29 March.
It's in the EU's interest to give the UK a little more time to better prepare.

 

[oldtom]

Is the explanation of why 17 million British subjects voted for fascism contained in this piece, courtesy of the AAV website?



In order to obtain power political extremists don't need to convince the masses to join them at the beginning. All they need to do is create so much confusion with their bombardments of propaganda, misinformation, and outright lies that ordinary people end up voting against their own interests because they can't see what's really going on.

Once the fanatics get into power they can set about enforcing their extremist ideology on the ordinary people who either didn't vote for them at all, or who didn't actually understand the dangerous ideology they were voting for.

Adolf Hitler never actually won a majority in Germany, he just got enough votes to get close enough to power to seize political control and ban all other political parties, and the rest is history.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

the government has to prepare for plan B which is WTO/no deal brexit on 29 March.
It's in the EU's interest to give the UK a little more time to better prepare.

I'm not quite sure I follow your logic on that 'Woosh'. I could understand the EU being flexible on any deal which keeps the UK tied in one way or another to the rest of the EU but to assist the UK towards WTO and no deal seems bizarre to me.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

And the Express
"
Leave champion Gove STEPS UP to conclude critical Brexit debate as MPs CLASH over May deal
MICHAEL GOVE will carry out the task of concluding Parliament’s five-day debate over Brexit ahead of the Commons’ so-called “meaningful vote” on Tuesday, December 11..

Fascinating that this man was effectively the one who sold the idea to Brexit voters that people who voted for remain denigrated them (For those most likely to have fallen for that it means told them they were being treated as stupid and did know what they were voting for really)
Has the sheer audacity to treat them as idiots by selling the opposite product of a Brino that the lying blighter knows darned well only a tiny faction of the leave voters are likely to want

 

[oldtom]

I came across this elsewhere and it describes very well the extent to which right-wing MPs would go to betray the people of the UK:

'What I find incomprehensible is that 293 MPs voted to have vital information CONCEALED from them so, when they voted on one of the most important issues since WWII, they would not be informed. Surely this is a dereliction of their duty as MPs and a betrayal of their constituents?'

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Stateswomanlike? Prime Minister-like? The woman has no shame!



Tom

 

[Woosh]

Fascinating that this man was effectively the one who sold the idea to Brexit voters that people who voted for remain denigrated them (For those most likely to have fallen for that it means told them they were being treated as stupid and did know what they were voting for really)
Has the sheer audacity to treat them as idiots by selling the opposite product of a Brino that the lying blighter knows darned well only a tiny faction of the leave voters are likely to want

Gove is not hot headed like many other brexiteers. He wants to make sure that brexit happens and is sustainable.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Independent
"
Brexit: Leave ‘very likely’ won EU referendum due to illegal overspending, says Oxford professor’s evidence to High Court
Exclusive: Analysis finds adverts reached ‘tens of millions of people’ in crucial days after spending limit breached – enough to change the outcome

It is “very likely” that the UK voted for Brexit because of illegal overspending by the Vote Leave campaign, according to an Oxford professor’s evidence to the High Court.

An exhaustive analysis of the campaign’s digital strategy concludes it reached “tens of millions of people” in its last crucial days, after its spending limit had been breached – enough to change the outcome.


The evidence will be put to the High Court on Friday, in a landmark case that is poised to rule within weeks whether the referendum result should be declared void because the law was broken.

 

[oldtom]

A left-wing blogger reveals how a more serious politician views the PM's shameful performance:



Tom

 

[Woosh]

Stateswomanlike? Prime Minister-like? The woman has no shame!

Tom

these losses helped her to regain some of the wavering brexiter MPs who were planning to vote against her. Apparently the current projected loss is around 60, down from 90..

 

[oldgroaner]

Gove is not hot headed like many other brexiteers. He wants to make sure that brexit happens and is sustainable.

Really? or is it a case that he wants to avoid being held responsible when things go "Belly up" under the old "reasonable man" ploy?

He is fully aware that there is the possibility of mud sticking to him so he has changed sides

 

[oldtom]

Gove is not hot headed like many other brexiteers. He wants to make sure that brexit happens and is sustainable.

Gove is a classic example of the self-aggrandising political animal who grasps at any populist topic in the hope that people forget about his stupidity and mishandling of his brief in previous offices. I believe that he imagines that one day, the backstabbing liar that he is will become PM.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I came across this elsewhere and it describes very well the extent to which right-wing MPs would go to betray the people of the UK:

'What I find incomprehensible is that 293 MPs voted to have vital information CONCEALED from them so, when they voted on one of the most important issues since WWII, they would not be informed. Surely this is a dereliction of their duty as MPs and a betrayal of their constituents?'

Tom

it's not concealed. The backstop story has been discussed for months. The EU wants it to be limited to NI, the UK actually wants it to be UK wide because it is beneficial to the economy.
The compromise has been known virtually as soon as it was released on the EU's website. The GA's private report added nothing that wasn't already known by MPs and even posters on this thread.

 

[oldtom]

It is “very likely” that the UK voted for Brexit because of illegal overspending by the Vote Leave campaign, according to an Oxford professor’s evidence to the High Court

British justice, Mmm!

Let's see; the government hates experts and some of their leading spokesmen are on record stating as much. The same government also happens to pay the wages of the judges being asked to consider a matter the government desperately needs to win.

I wonder what odds the major bookmakers would offer on that expert's opinion being upheld by the learned judges who just happen to dine at the same London clubs as tory MPs and Lords?

Tom

 

[oldtom]

it's not concealed.

What do you think the MPs voted against?

The Attorney General was refusing to reveal his findings because he, in collusion with the PM and tory party grandees, did not wish the results of his research to be made public.

The government lost in spite of 293 of their number avidly wishing to deny the public access to the information Cox had gleaned.

So, until he was forced to reveal the information, it was in fact concealed and any opinions proffered by people in or out of government were pure speculation.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

British justice, Mmm!

Let's see; the government hates experts and some of their leading spokesmen are on record stating as much. The same government also happens to pay the wages of the judges being asked to consider a matter the government desperately needs to win.

I wonder what odds the major bookmakers would offer on that expert's opinion being upheld by the learned judges who just happen to dine at the same London clubs as tory MPs and Lords?

Tom

Surely it should be judged by the ECJ ? (He said grinning wildly)

 

[Fingers]

Is the explanation of why 17 million British subjects voted for fascism contained in this piece, courtesy of the AAV website?

View attachment 28022

In order to obtain power political extremists don't need to convince the masses to join them at the beginning. All they need to do is create so much confusion with their bombardments of propaganda, misinformation, and outright lies that ordinary people end up voting against their own interests because they can't see what's really going on.

Once the fanatics get into power they can set about enforcing their extremist ideology on the ordinary people who either didn't vote for them at all, or who didn't actually understand the dangerous ideology they were voting for.

Adolf Hitler never actually won a majority in Germany, he just got enough votes to get close enough to power to seize political control and ban all other political parties, and the rest is history.

Tom

Sounds more like the federalist EU tbh. I’ve not known a political movement in Europe that has so many flaws but so many true believers. Well not in my lifetime at least.

 

[oldgroaner]

Whoa! I almost missed this little nugget
"
It points out that the Remain campaign was forced to stop its digital advertising on the last day of the June 2016 campaign because it had reached its spending limit.

In contrast, Vote Leave carried on, despite busting its limit two days before the vote – and was later found by the Electoral Commission to have broken the law."

 

[oldgroaner]

Sounds more like the federalist EU tbh. I’ve not known a political movement in Europe that has so many flaws but so many true believers. Well not in my lifetime at least.

Except of course for the Conservative Party, New Labour and the Lib Dems?