And I've posted the intentions in here a number of times.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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But it stands to reason that countries have armies, and a single country called Europe or USE would be no different.
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That's a dishonest poll. Asking if May's deal is the best on the table, of course most will agree when it's the only one on the table.
Typical Daily Mail.
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Yes.. as some of us have been saying for months now. The best deal the UK has is the one it has now all others are worse, some far worse than others.
From the Daily Mail,should be named the Daily May.....you know that you can modify a result by how you ask the question.....a recent pole said 63% would like a second referendum,I bet if you asked that same group whether it would be an embarrassment 47% would say it would be,but they would still want the vote.too late. 47% find that cancelling brexit would be a humiliation.
Those questions are loaded to achieve the result the Mail (and May) wanted.
KudosDave
there is no contradiction between those who want a second referendum and those who find leaving is humiliating. Some will vote for remain, some for no deal, some for May's deal.
the majority of those 47% would likely to vote for May's deal in a second referendum.
Every politician,including May,is now referring to Remain,they call it No Brexit(NOBIT,hehe)....Hammond,Rudd,Fallon are all feeling confident to say that Remain would be the best option.....a few weeks ago that would have been Tory treason.
How long will it be before that same group will be talking about how we can Remain ,Theresa May would have to be replaced because she cannot change after all her lies about going for Brexit....Rudd for PM?
KudosDave
How long will it be before that same group will be talking about how we can Remain ,Theresa May would have to be replaced because she cannot change after all her lies about going for Brexit....Rudd for PM?
KudosDave
And the people who have to talk about this seriously - country leaders - have only started talking more seriously since Trump threw his toys out of the NATO pram, i.e. earlier this year. It will be on the commission agenda when EU leaders ask them to put it there.
But you said ‘too late’,suggesting that 47% had closed the Remain door,That door is getting wider by the day.
If the EU came up with some deal on immigration I am certain we would stay in...after all immigration is a problem with the rest of the 27,so there may be some mutual agreement.
We voted out so that deal is gone.
Why are you so scared about us leaving the EU?
Why does it worry you so? Have you got a dog in the fight?
We will be leaving. It’s just how.
I’d be looking at an EFTA type deal without Schengen. I think that’s doable.
It's already on their agenda since the Commission's President Jean-Claude Juncker raised it in March 2015. He proposed it as a way of showing the EU was serious about defending itself against Russia.
I haven't seen any other EU country leader speak out against it, other than our own David Cameron at the time. So I don't see any opposition to an EU army being set up once we leave.
In effect one has long been operational, this from Wikipedia:
"The Helsinki Headline Goal Catalogue is a listing of rapid reaction forces composed of 60,000 troops managed by the European Union, but under control of the countries who deliver troops for it.
Forces introduced at Union level include:
The battle groups (BG) adhere to the CSDP, and are based on contributions from a coalition of member states. Each of the eighteen Battlegroups consists of a battalion-sized force (1,500 troops) reinforced with combat support elements.[1][2] The groups rotate actively, so that two are ready for deployment at all times. The forces are under the direct control of the Council of the European Union. The Battlegroups reached full operational capacity on 1 January 2007."
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Since I live 10 miles south of the border with NI, yes I do have a "dog in the fight " . And yes I am very apprehensive, ( it takes a lot to scare me at my age, ) with what will happen following the BREXIt. ...
At the very least it will breath new life into the cross border smuggling, which had started to reduce after changes in the diesel additives.That will encourage European gangs to join.
I have already seen the collapse of what was a viable frozen food manufacturing company,which I attribute to Brexit,in the last few weeks. The collapse in the value of sterling dipping from 70 cents to 90 cents, has meant that contracts written in sterling become unviable. To the shoppers in Iceland and ASDA it's just a reduction in choice, but to producers of mushrooms, flour and chickens it is loss of a market.
What will happen to UK consumers is that they will find a reduction in choice, it will be gradual but incessant, or they suffer hefty price rises. Incidentally the owners of that company are in the UK,and they have now lost their manufacturing wing..how long do they remain solvent?.
British goods are now selling at prices I don't remember since 2000, ,such is the fall in the value of sterling. What happens when those British suppliers start looking for raw materials on the global market?.
As I have said before, the EU have made a deal, your Parliament can accept or Reject it. That deal will not alter between now and March. The ball is in your court.
Britain has been a part of the EU Battlegroup inc Paras from Air Assault Brigade from Colchester. In fact I can hear them target shooting right now! (though Tories are flogging off their target range land for housing development!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Battlegroup
And UK still wanted to be a part of this post-brexit (at least in June 2018)...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/25/nine-eu-states-to-sign-off-on-joint-military-intervention-force
"Nine EU member states have agreed to establish a European military force for rapid deployment in times of crisis, an initiative which has won the backing of the UK as it seeks to maintain defence ties after Brexit.
The UK has traditionally been wary of efforts to build a European defence cooperation that could challenge Nato structures, but has become a champion of such initiatives since the vote to leave the EU.
A French government source said the UK’s involvement was key, as the two military powers shared similar cultures and analytical approaches on how to tackle a crisis. “That culture is not shared between every EU member state,” the source said."
whoops Nov 2018
https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854
Looks like Brexit put a spanner in the works:
"The vast majority of EU states have agreed to create what some have called the nucleus of a joint army.
Twenty three out of 28 EU states signed the declaration in Brussels on Monday (13 November), prior to making a legally binding pledge at an EU summit next month.
Britain, Denmark, Ireland, Malta, and Portugal stayed out.
But some of them, such as Ireland, indicated they might join in time for the summit. Britain, which is leaving the EU, could also take part under special conditions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Battlegroup
And UK still wanted to be a part of this post-brexit (at least in June 2018)...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/25/nine-eu-states-to-sign-off-on-joint-military-intervention-force
"Nine EU member states have agreed to establish a European military force for rapid deployment in times of crisis, an initiative which has won the backing of the UK as it seeks to maintain defence ties after Brexit.
The UK has traditionally been wary of efforts to build a European defence cooperation that could challenge Nato structures, but has become a champion of such initiatives since the vote to leave the EU.
A French government source said the UK’s involvement was key, as the two military powers shared similar cultures and analytical approaches on how to tackle a crisis. “That culture is not shared between every EU member state,” the source said."
whoops Nov 2018
https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854
Looks like Brexit put a spanner in the works:
"The vast majority of EU states have agreed to create what some have called the nucleus of a joint army.
Twenty three out of 28 EU states signed the declaration in Brussels on Monday (13 November), prior to making a legally binding pledge at an EU summit next month.
Britain, Denmark, Ireland, Malta, and Portugal stayed out.
But some of them, such as Ireland, indicated they might join in time for the summit. Britain, which is leaving the EU, could also take part under special conditions."
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the remain door has never been completely shut, it rests on the prerequisite that there are enough MPs to want it.
As long as JC still supports brexit, the number of MPs wanting to remain won't reach one third leave alone majority.
Re FOM: we only need a digital identity card system to access services, something similar to 'carte vitale' in France. That will shut down the argument that we must leave because of EU benefit tourism.
The ball is indeed in our court. And I do think the EU will alter the deal. They don’t want a no deal. As I’ve said before. This is how the EU operates. It was always going to be an 11th hour and 59 minutes deal.
Remember when the last but one treaty signing was arranged and was rejected then they made another? A miracle! Or was it just normal practice....
Maybe we will suffer increasing prices but they will never get to the level of what you have now under the EU. I went to a Tesco’s in Wexford and was quite astonished at the prices. Things that cost £5.99 here cost €15.99 things that cost £1.25 here cost €3 there etc.
How does that compute? Same import and tariffs and the exact same product yet nearly three times the price.
I’m not sure how or why this frozen food seller shut down but I doubt it was Brexit. In fact frozen produce and storage has gone up to such an extent that we are desperate for industrial freezing units.
Sounds like a badly run company to me. Especially when you consider we’ve not even had Brexit yet.
There seem to be a lot of them appearing out of the woodwork as time goes by, now hy would that be one wonders?
Most likely someone is making them up.(and backdating them)
The difference in living costs are displayed here
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Comparative_price_levels_of_consumer_goods_and_services
Euro area =102.6
UK =116.6
The figures don't support your statement.
I can only go by what I saw.
Ireland’s villages are as expensive as London. Paris is much more expensive than London.
It's not leaving the EU we are afraid of, I for one know we will end up being worse off, but that is apparently your ambition.
What I'm afraid of is this
If we have a majority of Voters gullible enough to vote for imbeciles like the leave faction, what will they foolishly allow the con men who mugged them into voting for Brexit to impose on the entire population with a few seductive slogans?
We would probably have gained a more advantageous deal if the official Mafia was running the place rather than what can best be described as the shock troops and goons of Corporate power,aiding and abetting Russia's attempt to destabilise the EU.
Thanks to the leave vote they can pretty well do whatever takes their fancy after we are no longer members of the EU.
And no treaty signed will stop them, they will use "The Pirates Code" and treat them as "Advisory only"
Gove has said as much already.