Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

Lying?
I’m a socialist.

Likewise 'wheeler', dyed-in-the-wool humanitaran in my case but I think 'Fingers' has just got himself mixed up. He's certainly some kind of '….ist' but it's not socialist as he has no concept of what that means. Maybe it's a problem with spelling and he meant something else, actually ending in '.issed'

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

A little fun

But in the EU they wouldn't get away with that would they?

 

[oldgroaner]

Likewise 'wheeler', dyed-in-the-wool humanitaran in my case but I think 'Fingers' has just got himself mixed up. He's certainly some kind of '….ist' but it's not socialist as he has no concept of what that means. Maybe it's a problem with spelling and he meant something else, actually ending in '.issed'

Tom

I shall explain
His comments are off topic and intended to be witty and pithy.
ipso facto that makes him an artist.... a "PithArtist"

 

[Fingers]

 

[oldgroaner]

"The new name for Brexit! very good Fingers, very, very good!

 

[oldtom]

I'm not sure advertising is allowed here.

Tom

 

[flecc]

I would even suggest that the way the EU has become so intransigent some remainers may have even shifted their vote.

How on earth can you arrive at that?

The referendum margin to leave was under 4%.

Since the the polls have shown a continuous swing to Remain, which has now reached a clear 8% margin to Remain in current polls.

That's a 12% swing, extremely large and rare in national elections. The longer this goes on, the larger the swing will be.

That's why the ERG are too scared to depose May and failed to send the 48 letters to do so. They know a second referendum would definitely mean Remaining.
.

 

[oldtom]

It's off-topic but I just saw our star Foreign Sec, Jeremy Hunt (Rhyming slang?) interviewed about the British spy non-spy who has been given a life sentence by a court in the UAE.

He had this threat for them:

'If we can't resolve this, there's going to be serious diplomatic consequences!'

Well, that's reassuring and I'm sure Matthew Hedges will be over the moon this evening!

I wonder if Hunt will have strong words for Saudi Arabia too. Gosh, the Arab world must all be quaking in their boots sandals tonight!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

It's off-topic but I just saw our star Foreign Sec, Jeremy Hunt (Rhyming slang?) interviewed about the British spy non-spy who has been given a life sentence by a court in the UAE.

He had this threat for them:

'If we can't resolve this, there's going to be serious diplomatic consequences!'

Well, that's reassuring and I'm sure Matthew Hedges will be over the moon this evening!

I wonder if Hunt will have strong words for Saudi Arabia too. Gosh, the Arab world must all be quaking in their boots sandals tonight!

Tom

With laughter

 

[Fingers]

It's off-topic but I just saw our star Foreign Sec, Jeremy Hunt (Rhyming slang?) interviewed about the British spy non-spy who has been given a life sentence by a court in the UAE.

He had this threat for them:

'If we can't resolve this, there's going to be serious diplomatic consequences!'

Well, that's reassuring and I'm sure Matthew Hedges will be over the moon this evening!

I wonder if Hunt will have strong words for Saudi Arabia too. Gosh, the Arab world must all be quaking in their boots sandals tonight!

Tom

I like going to the park and have a wander around kicking at the leaves that fall from the trees. Then if i have the time I might go for a pint and read a book.

Then its home to cook dinner. Then off to bed. then when I wake up I go...Sorry this is the random thoughts thread isn't it?

 

[oldgroaner]

I like going to the park and have a wander around kicking at the leaves that fall from the trees. Then if i have the time I might go for a pint and read a book.

Then its home to cook dinner. Then off to bed. then when I wake up I go...Sorry this is the random thoughts thread isn't it?

By jove! I think he's got it

 

[oldtom]

The kind of language used by the government's propaganda wing, particularly the BBC, is appalling - this from John Pienaar - has little to do with presenting news and is nothing more than delivery of a message, in this case that it's all the EU's fault by not being prepared to budge, making them the bad guys.

'Theresa May is taking a huge gamble over Brexit agreement'

'Brussels has refused to budge in key areas, making the PM's task of selling the agreement to ministers and MPs even harder.'

John Pienaar Deputy political editor




What I can't understand is why this should be presented to the public in this way after May AGREED THE TERMS. There can be no other reason I can see except it is part of the brainwashing process that only the dumbest fools in society will believe. Sadly, there are an awful lot of gullible fools out there - some are even cropping up on this forum now!

May returned from Brussels, triumphantly extolling the virtues and benefits of her Chequers deal or the fudge that she happily signed off with the EU negotiators.

The reps of the 27 sovereign nation states retired from the discussions on receiving May's acceptance of surrender terms so why should they be further harassed by HM government? It's time to put up or shut up - end of!

Tom

 

[oyster]

probably from the same area that says all leavers didn't know what they were voting for/ are all racist xenophobes/ and would all change their minds if we had a ''''Peoples Vote'''

I have NEVER said that all leavers didn't know what they were voting for.

Nonetheless, it seems to be pretty much impossible to find any leaver who described the trajectory from the referendum to now before it happened. Not in detail, just in very broad brush strokes.

What will happen from now on seems even less clear.

Given that, it seems very difficult to hold that many of those who voted leave knew what they were voting for. In the above sense, I didn't know what I was voting against. But right now I am very glad that I did.

 

[oyster]

There was no PR 1st time round 'Danidl' so it would hardly be fair to introduce it for a re-run.

It needs to be 'The Deal' as negotiated and agreed - only one - or remain in the EU.

Tom

There are times I find it very difficult to care about "fair". The rotten referendum was itself unfair. Don't get me wrong, I want everything to be scrupulously fair at all times. But when it isn't on one occasion, it is more difficult to uphold the need for fairness when the reverse could happen.

 

[gray198]

I have NEVER said that all leavers didn't know what they were voting for.

Nonetheless, it seems to be pretty much impossible to find any leaver who described the trajectory from the referendum to now before it happened. Not in detail, just in very broad brush strokes.

What will happen from now on seems even less clear.

Given that, it seems very difficult to hold that many of those who voted leave knew what they were voting for. In the above sense, I didn't know what I was voting against. But right now I am very glad that I did.

did those who voted to stay know what they were voting for. Closer integration/ European Army etc. They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country

 

[Kudoscycles]

I think that's the problem tbh. It's neither one thing nor the other. It's typical May. She cannot make a decision.

We won't be free to make our deals, we will still be paying in but with no advantage. The N.I thing is a mess and if anything creates a the biggest threat to the break up of the Union. We get absolutely nothing back for the 39 billion pounds we are giving away. I understand we don't get full control of the fishing areas and ultimately the EU still has control of our destiny with their veto/backstop on N.I.

It really is worse than the current deal we have now.

‘It really is worse than the current deal’....we expected that,the EU warned from the start that we could not have all the advantages of a full member,surely Leave voters knew that life outside of the EU would be worse. The mess our team has made of the negotiations doesn’t bode well for our ability to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world,we have 60 deals to catch up with the EU.,do you really have confidence in Liam Fox to negotiate these deals,I think he is a bit of a drip.
The 39 billion is our exit cost,it is not a purchase of a free trade deal,the only way of avoiding that is to not Brexit,
It does sound as though you are regretting Brexit?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have spent a lot of time arguing with them about these very points. They do not like the way the EU is heading. They liked things when we were just a trading block, they feel unelected folks in Brussels are interfering with too much that happens in the UK.

They worry about an ever closer relationship and what this might mean, they worry about having to bail out Countries like Italy, they feel we have are being dragged further away from being able to control our own destinies.

I don't agree with them on these points but I do understand their concerns. For many years virtually no one in power has being putting the good side of the EU forward. The narrative has always been to find fault with the EU.

It’s so often the case that you don’t see the good until it’s taken away.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

For those of you who know of Harry Leslie Smith and equally for those who may never have heard of the man, he was admitted to hospital yesterday and is not doing too well.

Here is a report from The Morning Star':

harry-leslie-smith-admitted-into-hospital

A later bulletin said this about his condition:
Tom

 

[Fingers]

The kind of language used by the government's propaganda wing, particularly the BBC, is appalling - this from John Pienaar - has little to do with presenting news and is nothing more than delivery of a message, in this case that it's all the EU's fault by not being prepared to budge, making them the bad guys.

'Theresa May is taking a huge gamble over Brexit agreement'

'Brussels has refused to budge in key areas, making the PM's task of selling the agreement to ministers and MPs even harder.'

John Pienaar Deputy political editor

View attachment 27808


What I can't understand is why this should be presented to the public in this way after May AGREED THE TERMS. There can be no other reason I can see except it is part of the brainwashing process that only the dumbest fools in society will believe. Sadly, there are an awful lot of gullible fools out there - some are even cropping up on this forum now!

May returned from Brussels, triumphantly extolling the virtues and benefits of her Chequers deal or the fudge that she happily signed off with the EU negotiators.

The reps of the 27 sovereign nation states retired from the discussions on receiving May's acceptance of surrender terms so why should they be further harassed by HM government? It's time to put up or shut up - end of!

Tom

You're like a flat earther. Conspiracy everywhere!

There was absolutely nothing in what Pienarr said that was biased you utter bellend. He's reporting with a UK point of view because guess what. He's reporting to people in the UK.

He's not reporting to some retired traveling sales rep in Spain.

It's as I said before. The 27 are starting to split. Local elections in Spain mean Gibraltar is an issue. Fishing waters have become a new wrinkle. Denmark are concerned UK businesses don't have an advantage over theirs etc.

Try and get news from places that are not here. And stop lying.

Tom.

 

[oyster]

did those who voted to stay know what they were voting for. Closer integration/ European Army etc. They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country

Yes - I expect closer integration. The precise nature of that integration, and the possibility of movements in the opposite direction at the same time, are open to speculation and discussion.

European defence force (why does everyone say "army"? surely it will need naval and aerial capabilities) is obvious. We have for many years had all sorts of situations in which our forces have operated with and under others, and vice versa, in many contexts such as NATO and UN.