We only had two choices first time round - take it or leave it. That's the way it should be if another referendum occurs.
Tom
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Tom
I have spent a lot of time arguing with them about these very points. They do not like the way the EU is heading. They liked things when we were just a trading block, they feel unelected folks in Brussels are interfering with too much that happens in the UK.
They worry about an ever closer relationship and what this might mean, they worry about having to bail out Countries like Italy, they feel we have are being dragged further away from being able to control our own destinies.
I don't agree with them on these points but I do understand their concerns. For many years virtually no one in power has being putting the good side of the EU forward. The narrative has always been to find fault with the EU.
I don't think you grasp the concept of this type of proportional representation. What happens is the lowest vote is eliminated and then the second choice from those papers is counted. So let's assume that 45 million voted and the split was remain 16 million Mays option 14 million and WTO 15 million. Then Mays option goes off the table,and only those 14 million voted are looked at again. There are then three outcomes for each vote. .. no second choice,... disregard, vote for WTO or Vote for remain. It would be done within 24 hours. The second choice from an eliminated candidate or option has exactly the same validity as a first choice for another option. No fancy math
It requires the electorate to think of what do I really want to happen,if I don't get my first choice.
I just noted on another thread that 'Fingers' claims to be a socialist….I really can't stop laughing.
Tom
Tom
I think that's the problem tbh. It's neither one thing nor the other. It's typical May. She cannot make a decision.
We won't be free to make our deals, we will still be paying in but with no advantage. The N.I thing is a mess and if anything creates a the biggest threat to the break up of the Union. We get absolutely nothing back for the 39 billion pounds we are giving away. I understand we don't get full control of the fishing areas and ultimately the EU still has control of our destiny with their veto/backstop on N.I.
It really is worse than the current deal we have now.
May's deal is like the conservatives not wanting Labour and Labour not wanting the conservatives, so we end up with the lib dems and nobody is
happy.
happy.
Or coming up with single drink suitable for Maria von Trapp in The Sound of Music and Father Jack from Father Ted - and then wondering why the compromise **** poor shandy is spat out by both...
.. reason for which is actually a very good deal at present. Any future deal from outside the club of 28 will/ must be worst.
Of course it is, it stands to reason that we can't have as good a deal as the one we have now as an EU member.
wheeler
Those who said the country voted for a hard brexit were obviously wrong. We were split. Your friends cannot have a hard brexit since we clearly didn't vote for it, as shown by the under 4% margin vote and the way that has now reversed, doubling that margin to remain instead.
To me that means the choice for the country is, do we want to go ahead with a compromise Brexit, i.e. softish like May's deal, or decide it's not worth it and remain.
Bringing in extras now that weren't originally on offer is wrong. Especially since the majority public simply don't have the relevant WTO knowledge so cannot make an informed decision.
.
Last edited:
Danidl, we have proportional representation in London within our four periodical elections, so I understand it well. No explanations necessary.
But I also know how the public here get confused by it since its a variation they aren't used to, especially when voting at the same time on first past the post papers. The result has been messy with numerous forms with only one vote entered, many spoilt papers, and quite a few blank with nothing entered. It would be worse nationally for the first time.
So I don't think it suitable for a second referendum, a second ballot of the two highest would be less confusing in the undesirable event of a triple choice.
.
the only way that parliament could produce a second referendum is enough MPs want it. That means you need to get JC, new Labour and a substantial number of Tory MPs on board. That means more than two questions.
The default outcome is a WTO hard brexit so don't write off the ERG just yet.
The default outcome is a WTO hard brexit so don't write off the ERG just yet.
"Vote my deal down, she is telling the hard Brexiteers, and you might end up with remain. Vote my deal down, she is telling the Remainers, and you might end up with no deal at all.
Your entry-level analysis of the Brexit chaos is to point out she can’t possibly do both and is therefore bluffing. But that, surely, is the point? One of you is going to lose an eye. I’ve no idea which, but one of you will. So what do you do?"
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-brexit-a8644891.html
Your entry-level analysis of the Brexit chaos is to point out she can’t possibly do both and is therefore bluffing. But that, surely, is the point? One of you is going to lose an eye. I’ve no idea which, but one of you will. So what do you do?"
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-brexit-a8644891.html
probably from the same area that says all leavers didn't know what they were voting for/ are all racist xenophobes/ and would all change their minds if we had a ''''Peoples Vote'''
That's a new one, have you a link to it anywhere?
Thought not, it is certainly not a view popular among remainers, as we are well aware just how slow to learn many of the leave voters have proved to be
There was no PR 1st time round 'Danidl' so it would hardly be fair to introduce it for a re-run.
It needs to be 'The Deal' as negotiated and agreed - only one - or remain in the EU.
Tom
Today Labour ruled out any support for a hard brexit, resulting in a widespread acceptance that the great majority of the Commons will never approve that outcome.
That's why escape routes are being discussed like Norway plus or going into the EEA single market, if only for a few years.
Or May's deal.
.