Brexit, for once some facts.

Fingers

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But:

We had to pay PSA almost 10% of their investment to keep it going.

The vans will all switch to PSA's Peugeot platform and engines which are already made in the mainland EU, making it easy to close Luton at any time afterwards. Luton only has a one year guarantee, the rest is just hope.

PSA's Ellesmere Port plant producing Astras continues to shrink. It's already twice now shrunk by thousands of jobs and another 650 go at the same time as this Luton announcement.

Once again, PSA have plants for the Astra in the mainland EU. After buying GM's interests in the EU they have two idle plants in low cost countries which have previously produced Astras. Little wonder PSA haven't responded to our worries about the Ellesmere Port plant, since they need to cut costs by 2.5 billion by 2026.
.

I was just calling out the idiot sandwich that is Tom and hs bull **** out.

Your pessism is your problem. I can say the exact opposite and say Luton will be an utter triumph and success and become a huge employer.

See. We can't predict the future. But we can stop lies. I mean this thread is for facts right?
 

tommie

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Interesting comment from Leo..

Varadkar: Ireland is not contemplating putting up a hard-border even if UK votes down Brexit deal.

So no one wants or is going to put up a hard border. Why then is the "back-stop" necessary to prevent something no one is ever going to implement?
 
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vidtek

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Was Tom responding to this previous post of yours?
"Most of you rabid remainers claiming to know what will happen-you are the deluded ones"
Would you care to explain why you object to being vilified but see nothing wrong in dishing it out, rather than provide an argument to support the leave faction.

What is the point of posting on the forum if you don't intend to do that?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
Sorry, but I don't dish it out, I do not vilify anyone, and never have (other than my abusive father and Maggie Thatcher).
 

oldgroaner

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Sorry, but I don't dish it out, I do not vilify anyone, and never have (other than my abusive father and Maggie Thatcher).
Then you didn't write this
""Most of you rabid remainers claiming to know what will happen-you are the deluded ones"
And offered as tom said no argument cogent to the topic of this thread in your post.
Is that an example of logic?
 
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Fingers

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Don't normally like cut n paste but this article says all.....

This much we know: whatever the stories of the millions of people who ended up backing it, Brexit originated in the failure of successive Conservative leaders to adequately deal with a tribe of uncontrollable Tory ideologues, and in the ingrained tendency of post-Thatcher Conservatives to play fast and loose with the livelihoods and security of the rest of us. In an awful instance of irony, the misery and resentment sown by the deindustralisation the Tories accelerated in the 1980s and the austerity they pushed on the country 30 years later were big reasons why so many people decided to vote leave. What also helped was a surreal campaign of lies and disinformation, both during and after the referendum campaign, waged by entitled people with their eyes only on the main chance.

These things are part of a vast charge sheet not only against the modern Conservative party, but an alliance of old and new money that has set the basic terms of British politics for the past 40 years. Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson were educated at the same exclusive school as the prime minister whose idiotic decision to hold a referendum gave them their opportunity. Nigel Farage and Arron Banks are archetypal examples of the kind of spivs who were given licence to do as they pleased in the 80s. For all their absurd bleating about “elites”, we all know what these people represent: the two faces of the modern English ruling class, who have long combined to be nothing but trouble.


While some of us have been spitting feathers about the deceptions perpetrated by rightwing leavers, Jeremy Corbyn has seemed barely interested. Is there some kind of awful equivalence between the rightwing Brexiteers, who see national crisis as the ideal seedbed for a free-market utopia, and leftwingers who think socialism is similarly best assisted by disaster? Whatever the explanation, and whatever the levels of support for leave among Labour voters, a supposed party of opposition – and a leftwing one at that – accepting a project birthed and then sustained in the worst kind of rightwing political circles is a very odd spectacle indeed. This, surely, will also be the verdict of history.

KudosDave


THe real villain of the piece that always slips under the radar is Nick Clegg.

He is the ultimate cog of Brexit.
 

Woosh

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Interesting comment from Leo..

Varadkar: Ireland is not contemplating putting up a hard-border even if UK votes down Brexit deal.

So no one wants or is going to put up a hard border. Why then is the "back-stop" necessary to prevent something no one is ever going to implement?
he may say that but in case of a hard brexit, the ROI will be compelled to collect duty and VAT on goods coming from NI. If the EU feels that the ROI does not collect all the taxes (duty on goods is an EU tax), it will sue the ROI like it did to the UK for being lax on collecting taxes on Chinese imports and failure to stop Chinese made fake goods.
Eventually, checkpoints for goods will have to go up. Then checkpoints for people.
The only way to avoid a hard border is to remain or to stay very close to the EU. Call it a blackmail if you like, but if the UK wants a transition period, it has to offer a backstop.
 

Fingers

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Then you didn't write this
""Most of you rabid remainers claiming to know what will happen-you are the deluded ones"
And offered as tom said no argument cogent to the topic of this thread in your post.
Is that an example of logic?

I always wondered who was Martha out of you two.

Now we know.
 

oldgroaner

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Interesting comment from Leo..

Varadkar: Ireland is not contemplating putting up a hard-border even if UK votes down Brexit deal.

So no one wants or is going to put up a hard border. Why then is the "back-stop" necessary to prevent something no one is ever going to implement?
Look up the subject and find out for yourself
 
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oldgroaner

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I was just calling out the idiot sandwich that is Tom and hs bull **** out.

Your pessism is your problem. I can say the exact opposite and say Luton will be an utter triumph and success and become a huge employer.

See. We can't predict the future. But we can stop lies. I mean this thread is for facts right?
Are you going to supply some?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I've disagreed since there are several falsehoods in the list.

Points 3 and 4. We will pay a departure amount (probably the £39 billion) to the EU to honour our agreements. We have to in order to avoid our credit rating being slashed, which would severely damage our hopes of world trading.

Point 6. We have always made our own laws and every EU law has had the option to modify or even refuse to implement at the point of introduction. Each carried a six month period for that before the enforcement date. Even the treaties had opt outs which we took advantage of.

Point 11. We will still be subject to the ECJ. Our great repeal bill wrote all previously accepted EU law into UK law, and many of those laws specify the ECJ as the final arbiter. So we'd have to break our own law to avoid ECJ rulings.
.
 
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Fingers

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he may say that but in case of a hard brexit, the ROI will be compelled to collect duty and VAT on goods coming from NI. If the EU feels that the ROI does not collect all the taxes (duty on goods is an EU tax), it will sue the ROI like it did to the UK for being lax on collecting taxes on Chinese imports and failure to stop Chinese made fake goods.
Eventually, checkpoints for goods will have to go up. Then checkpoints for people.
The only way to avoid a hard border is to remain.

They do say that technology will have caught up by the time we need it to. ie in a couple of years.

I think this hard border nonsense is a wrinkle thrown in by the EU. A dangerous one too. Peace was hard fought for.

We don't want a hard border and niether does EIRE.
 

oldgroaner

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Who said we wanted to keep Doctors and nurses out?

Thats a stupid thing to say. I can't believe anyone would say that.

You true believers will spin anything into a negative to suit your narrow viewpoint.
flecc didn't say that did he? you tried to twist his post to suit yourself, then accused him of doing what you just did!
 
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flecc

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Your pessism is your problem. I can say the exact opposite and say Luton will be an utter triumph and success and become a huge employer.
I'm not a pessimist as my hopes for the EU and immigration show.

But I base my opinions on the future of Vauxhall Luton on known facts as I've posted, not hopes.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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At the risk of repeating myself.
Local to me we have one of the biggest carrot farms in the country and you are right most of the people that work there are Polish.
They are all on minimum wage and zero hours contracts. If it rains he sends them home without pay. If a machine breaks down he sends them home without pay. He owns most of the houses nearby and rents them back to the
Polish workers (half a dozen adults in one house) Do you blame British
workers for not wanting jobs under these conditions ?
The only workers on full time contracts are the fitters and Electricians, He treats them ok because he has to.
He treats the Polish workers like crap because he can.
And this will continue after Brrexit using workers from outside the EU who have never been prevented coming in even though we had the power to do so.
So what is the point you are trying to make?
No locals wanted these jobs anyway, that's how the situation came about.
 
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Danidl

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Interesting comment from Leo..

Varadkar: Ireland is not contemplating putting up a hard-border even if UK votes down Brexit deal.

So no one wants or is going to put up a hard border. Why then is the "back-stop" necessary to prevent something no one is ever going to implement?
Tommie, as you are probably aware, there was a joint report by the EU and UK on likely consequences in NI of various BREXIt scenarios. It's publication was suppressed up to now, by agreement of both EU and UK to increase the "serenity" of the negotiations. . There had been appeals to the EU Ombudsman, who is incidentally an Irishwoman, for its publication,. Now that the negotiations have concluded, the time is ripe for its release.
It will make interesting reading for us both.

In respect of our Leo's comment, there is a huge difference between contemplating, and actions. I am happliy contemplating how I will spend the Euromillions Jackpot , but my next action will be cleaning my room.
 
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vidtek

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Interesting comment from Leo..

Varadkar: Ireland is not contemplating putting up a hard-border even if UK votes down Brexit deal.

So no one wants or is going to put up a hard border. Why then is the "back-stop" necessary to prevent something no one is ever going to implement?
The only party who is terrified of a hard border is the EU. The Irish on both sides are perfectly happy with the way things are at the moment, as is the UK government. The GFA is a binding legal agreement ratified by the UN and is set in stone, with the Republic and GB signing up to it. The GFA requires a seamless and frictionless border. Any move by the EU to impose border controls would be in breach of this legal agreement. In any case, how would they achieve this in practical terms? The EU has no military, the republic is legally constrained from border controls, and the UK government will not put troops on the border on the EU's behalf as they are also similarly constrained.

The open border makes a mockery of the three pillars which the EU trumpets so loudly. This is the true reason why the EU are so terrified of brexit, and why it is such a thorn in their side.
Goods "not approved" by the EU can pour across the border. Likewise goods from all across the world can be made available in the Republic without the huge EU tariffs. Does anyone think the hordes of Mediterranean refugees will suddenly all pile into small boats and land on the shores of the Republic to get into the UK?
That's not going to happen, so there is no reason for anyone in the UK or the Republic to be fearful.

It's the EU that is wetting itself over this.
 
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daveboy

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And this will continue after Brrexit using workers from outside the EU who have never been prevented coming in even though we had the power to do so.
So what is the point you are trying to make?
No locals wanted these jobs anyway, that's how the situation came about.
But the locals were already working there.They all got finished to be replaced by zero hours agency staff from Poland.
The locals did exactly the same job, but for better wages and not to get sent home without pay when it was raining.
 

oldgroaner

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Balderdash.

There's a huge difference between 15 thousand Polish plumbers arriving in Peterborough and sending child benefit home and 5 thousand Romanian labourers turning up in Lincoln over a 12 month period to 500 trained Phillipino nurses going to a hospital trust and 150 trained Indian jumior doctors coming over.

There is a huge difference and you know it.
Can you produce any proof of statements you have made? or are they the usual urban myths?
 
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