Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
If ever proof was needed that the Brexiteers claim they knew what they were voting for in the referendum was utterly untrue, it's here at last and has been provided in no uncertain way by the events of today, for how could they know then that it would come to require 500 pages of agreed procedures to leave the EU?
And let us be honest and say, if they were provided with a copy of the 500 pages how many of them would have even the remotest clue about the significance of agreements that have been reached?
To continue with this charade when the complexity of the agreement process is equally likely to be above the cognisance of the charlatans that masquerade as the Government of this country is about as sensible as asking for an equal number of Chimpanzees to approve and execute it.
When a problem requires 500 pages of information to explain it the chances of things working out well are as near to Zero as makes no difference.
For after all this Government doesn't even understand what three words strung together actually means to them, and the words in question?
Brexit is Brexit.
And let us be honest and say, if they were provided with a copy of the 500 pages how many of them would have even the remotest clue about the significance of agreements that have been reached?
To continue with this charade when the complexity of the agreement process is equally likely to be above the cognisance of the charlatans that masquerade as the Government of this country is about as sensible as asking for an equal number of Chimpanzees to approve and execute it.
When a problem requires 500 pages of information to explain it the chances of things working out well are as near to Zero as makes no difference.
For after all this Government doesn't even understand what three words strung together actually means to them, and the words in question?
Brexit is Brexit.
Watching Boris maundering on about "For the first time in 1000 years we will have to accept Foreign laws."
Made me wonder
Why isn't someone pointing out that he is admitting the EU didn't impose laws on us while we were members, and shouldn't have campaigned for us to leave if he didn't want that to happen?
Was he too thick to see it coming?
Made me wonder
Why isn't someone pointing out that he is admitting the EU didn't impose laws on us while we were members, and shouldn't have campaigned for us to leave if he didn't want that to happen?
Was he too thick to see it coming?
If we have a European Army it would make us as a group stronger against current and future enemies.
If we are all on the same side it makes it more difficult for us to start shooting each other,volume of scale on weapons cost and development.
Cannot see any negatives against a European Army.
KudosDave
Looks like the most likely outcome is a longer Art50 with a second referendum.....vote ‘NO DEAL’ or ‘MAY’S DEAL’
KudosDave
KudosDave
My preference is for a global police force .. perhaps called something like .. UN FIL .. ,for which the Irish Army has since 1960 taken a prominent role.
Now in the week that is in it, perhaps a little respect for facts might not come amiss. .. in the First WW , All Ireland being part of the British Empire, was involved, some 210,000 were involved in the allied armies, and 35,000 were killed. The Northern Counties of Antrim and Down had a disproportionate share of the casualties and enlistment,for a few reasons. They as members of the UVF had been drilling for 5 more years than their Southern counterparts,were given better weapons and were seen by their British Army commanders as more loyal. The Southern Irish were viewed by the same officer class as somewhat suspect. Remember the Home rule bill had been passed in 1914 by the British Parliament,and it was essentially an illegal traitorist action by the Northern Irish,which prevented what was then the law of the land ,from being implemented. The officer class in any army,and especially the BA of the time would have been conservative in nature. .. Unfortunately they then fell into the same trap again in 1969 when they came over as peace enforcers.
The plea by the Pope in 1915, to end the war on terms, was of course ignored,by the belligerents,but was listened to in the South, .. Had it been heeded, we would not have had the massive death toll, Russia might not have collapsed, Fascism would not have become popular, and WW2 might never have happened.
As it was the Irish Free State,as it became was an enthusiastic and idealistic member of the League of Nations
The DUP! That's a nation isn't it? I mean they have a billion pounds sterling! Gosh! ...
Austria, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece and Norway.
.
I was under the impression that it was in abeyance in Germany - hence my use of the qualifier "active". Regardless, it is a minority and I cannot see the entire EU implementing conscription.
From the beginning of Cameron saying he would allow a referendum, I have been aware of many of the issues that would arise. Sure, I am not saying that I knew everything, nor the detail of anything. But I did know it was one mega-deal and he was a total idiot allowing it to happen.
What an utter failure Cameron was - that some of the simplest messages of how brexit would impact were never driven home.
However, "we didn't understand what it meant" seems to have become a tsunami. One example from the Guardian:
Public has been duped, Jo Johnson tells Gary Lineker at rally for new Brexit vote
Backers of second referendum gather in London to voice concerns about Theresa May’s plans
This turned out to be Lineker, with the BBC Match of the Day presenter initially appearing in a video message to say that, while he voted remain, he initially believed it was right to accept Brexit should happen.
He said: “I think it’s fair to say that back then we didn’t really know what it would entail, the ramifications of leaving the European Union. It’s becoming clear that there are very few positives. It’s almost unanimous that people think it will have some sort of debilitating effect on our economy, at the very least.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/13/public-has-been-duped-jo-johnson-tells-gary-lineker-at-rally-for-new-brexit-vote
What an utter failure Cameron was - that some of the simplest messages of how brexit would impact were never driven home.
However, "we didn't understand what it meant" seems to have become a tsunami. One example from the Guardian:
Public has been duped, Jo Johnson tells Gary Lineker at rally for new Brexit vote
Backers of second referendum gather in London to voice concerns about Theresa May’s plans
This turned out to be Lineker, with the BBC Match of the Day presenter initially appearing in a video message to say that, while he voted remain, he initially believed it was right to accept Brexit should happen.
He said: “I think it’s fair to say that back then we didn’t really know what it would entail, the ramifications of leaving the European Union. It’s becoming clear that there are very few positives. It’s almost unanimous that people think it will have some sort of debilitating effect on our economy, at the very least.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/13/public-has-been-duped-jo-johnson-tells-gary-lineker-at-rally-for-new-brexit-vote
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For many years, I have harboured strong misgivings about the British military and the control mechanisms under which our forces operate. My greatest concern is that the ethos of our combined military services is centred, not upon protecting the ordinary people of the UK, but ensuring above all else that the establishment and their wealth, influence, status and landholdings remain unaffected by any challenge.
I have just read an article from 'The Canary' which I find rather troubling; troubling because I cannot verify in my mind if it is all fact-based but there are parts which I know to be true. You can make up your own mind:
a-new-film-exposes-the-darker-side-of-british-militarism
Tom
I have just read an article from 'The Canary' which I find rather troubling; troubling because I cannot verify in my mind if it is all fact-based but there are parts which I know to be true. You can make up your own mind:
a-new-film-exposes-the-darker-side-of-british-militarism
Tom
Classic!
James O'BrienVerified account @mrjamesob 14h14 hours ago
Now they're arguing that we're surrendering the sovereignty they insisted we never had.
224 replies 3,854 retweets 10,746 likes
Replying to @mrjamesob
And Nige got owned today in the European Parliament about not wanting to be part of a German run EU while getting two of his own children German passports.
You really couldn't write comedy as absurd, could you?
James O'BrienVerified account @mrjamesob 14h14 hours ago
Now they're arguing that we're surrendering the sovereignty they insisted we never had.
224 replies 3,854 retweets 10,746 likes
Replying to @mrjamesob
And Nige got owned today in the European Parliament about not wanting to be part of a German run EU while getting two of his own children German passports.
You really couldn't write comedy as absurd, could you?
The problem is this oyster: our MPs and “Leading Figures” are, in the main, morally and ethically bankrupt. They display very poor leadership qualities and their credibility is shot to pieces. The expenses scandal, MPs voting themselves a 10%+ pay rise whilst imposing pay freezes on millions of public sector workers, bailing out casino style bank executives with tax payers money and then standing back and allowing these same people to award themselves £1 million+ bonuses for total failure.
This is just a small sample of the behaviour displayed by these establishment figures. So when they talk about Brexit, no one believes them, regardless of whether they happen to be speaking in the interests of the people they serve for once. Threats of an emergency budget the day after the referendum in the event of a leave vote, over exaggerated benefits of leaving the EU, it’s all garbage and the public have been misled by all sides of the argument. That is the real national disgrace, not the fact we are making such a cake & @rse party of leaving the EU, but the fact that our leaders have so effectively managed to squander all public trust & respect.
Our MPs are not fit people and never were fit people to advise the public on such an important matter as leaving the EU.
You just beat me to the punch with that one OG!
The combination of stupidity and hypocrisy is unbeatable among the 'Brexidiots'……..'Yeah, of course we knew what we were voting for - you lost, get over it!'
pmsl
Tom
If you cast your mind back to the early days of this thread I did warn that what would spell the doom of Brexit was the all too obvious truth in your post that we are "Governed" by a bunch of villains with the moral compass , diplomatic ,organizational and economic skills of a certain clan of Border Rievers , and to expect anything less than to be mugged (with style) by such people was naive in the extreme.
Which is my way of asking why did 17.4 million people fail to see this coming?
To misquote a famous Les Dawson line
" Brexit was a tough decision, you had to put your name down to be mugged."
Truly it beggars belief that so many did, and even more fantastic some of them still haven't changed their minds.
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Excellent! For anyone that hasn't read and watched this article. It really is a must.
It doesn’t surprise me. For the reasons that I stated above, those people haven’t changed their minds because they don’t trust the word of the people providing them with information. The track record of both sides handling the debate is appalling and the people concerned disgusting. The voting public have no one to turn to and place their faith in. That is a crisis far bigger than Brexit.