Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The one topic in all of the contributions posted in this thread which has astonished me more than any other is the level of hatred and fear engendered by Jeremy Corbyn and by the Labour Party per se among the tory faithful.

I can only put the tory bigotry down to ignorance and the lack of holistic education in our school and university system. Reading the British press and/or gaining opinion about political affairs, as dealt by the propaganda purveyors, known as political editors, at the BBC or SKY is no substitute for a broad spectrum of historical fact contained in the annals of British history.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

that will create a bit of traffic jam on the M20.

Only as far as Edinburgh [emoji41]

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[flecc]

he doesn't frighten me. I just think he is an incompetent buffoon, who is just recycling old ideas that will take the country to bankruptcy.

Corbyn has made Labour unelectable.

You anti-Corbynites amuse me with your delusions!

Renationalisation is generally popular among the electorate, a clear 60% back renationalising Rail, Water and The Post Office.

All three have been very expensive failures under private enterprise and most countries keep them public.

And they also dislike PPI and it's ever increasing cost and failures, Carillion for example.

The smear campaigns of the Tories and yourselves are no longer working. For once the public are beginning to think for themselves and making their own minds up from facts, like the mess the Tories have made of Brexit where they only see incompetence.
.

 

[gray198]

The conservatives? Indeed they are still going
Ukip was the monster raving looney party

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why did I know you would say that OG

 

[Woosh]

Lib dems, what a waste of time they are.

why? is it their policies or their MPs that you object to?

 

[Woosh]

The one topic in all of the contributions posted in this thread which has astonished me more than any other is the level of hatred and fear engendered by Jeremy Corbyn and by the Labour Party per se among the tory faithful.

that is because not many actually bother to look into the details.
The general idea is JC will spend a lot more money than what the tax raises at the moment. Money for re-nationalisation for example. Labour should explain better how they are going to do that. I feel that the scheme deserves to be better understood.
On tax, the general idea is simple: the rich have never paid much tax on their accumulated fortunes because there have always been loopholes and deferments, they pay when they want to and as much as they want to more or less. The biggest burden falls always on the middle working classes and the JAMs, that's them, the core conservative voters that have delivered 3 out of 4 governments in my time.
The conservatives sell their policies on the attraction of merits. You work harder than your neighbours, you make more money than your neighbours, that's the measure of your success in life. Forget about obesity, type 2 diabetes and heart diseases.

 

[gray198]

why? is it their policies or their MPs that you object to?

both

 

[oldgroaner]

why did I know you would say that OG

Lets see now, do you want evidence? how about this

1. Davis writes the introductory bill for the Referendum and it's advisory only
   
2. Cameron hides the fact it is advisory and promises to leave the EU the next day if the vote is leave
3. The leave campaign employs illegal means of mass persuasion, lies, money from in all probabilty a foreign source working against the unity of the EU, and employs false promises and the Tory Party know that
4. Cameron quits, and Boris quits too, shocked that his attempt to curry favour in leadership contest actually got a result that terrifies him in case he has to make it work and be made responsible
   
5. Then along comes an ambitious career failure TM to grab her moment of Glory and employs the chief idiots of the leave campaign as the "The Three Brexiteers Fox , Davis, Boris.

Not much point in going on, if you can't see you've been gulled by these pillocks, there's really no hope for you to develop the ability to make character judgements is there?

Yet you fear Corbyn because these idiots have issued dire warnings about him?
Halleluya!

 

[oldgroaner]

that is because not many actually bother to look into the details.
The general idea is JC will spend a lot more money than what the tax raises at the moment. Money for re-nationalisation for example. Labour should explain better how they are going to do that. I feel that the scheme deserves to be better understood.
On tax, the general idea is simple: the rich have never paid much tax on their accumulated fortunes because there have always been loopholes and deferments, they pay when they want to and as much as they want to more or less. The biggest burden falls always on the middle working classes and the JAMs, that's them, the core conservative voters that have delivered 3 out of 4 governments in my time.
The conservatives sell their policies on the attraction of merits. You work harder than your neighbours, you make more money than your neighbours, that's the measure of your success in life. Forget about obesity, type 2 diabetes and heart diseases.

Merits you say? the only way you can make more money than your neighbours is to be a Tax Evader, or in on some racket.
It has nothing to do with merit, but a lot to do with being an unscrupulous greedy swindling shyster.
And the middle and working class fall for this, imagining they are not being swindled but actually benefit from being ripped off, and at the same time are frightened they might be parted from some of their money to help the rest of society.
Their motivation is mankinds oldest and purest emotions.
Fear and Greed

 

[oldtom]

I hope this video clip works - it plays fine on my computer, on my phone, my other half's computer and on a piece of Microsoft crap from about 10 years ago that weighs a ton and takes forever to start up.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=330753410822197

Tom

 

[oldtom]

The general idea is JC will spend a lot more money than what the tax raises at the moment.

That requires the qualification that 'The general idea, promulgated and eternally disseminated by tory central office for the benefit and delectation of the imbeciles who support them, is JC will spend a lot more money than what the tax raises at the moment.'

The reality is entirely different from that blatant lie. It is propaganda of the worst kind but lapped up by the ignoramuses who vote for the party which represents only the wealthy elite. Those who have actually taken the trouble to study political history would understand that. Sadly, the brainwashing programme has worked so well that the imbeciles simply cannot see the forest for the trees.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I wonder if TM's post brexit immigration policy will reverse brexit.
By closing the door to low skill EU workers, she will force more unemployed youths into doing fruit picking, restauration, care for the elderly etc. I wonder how long before the elderly and the youths start begging the government to reverse this policy.

 

[oldgroaner]

Sorry it only did on my android phone

I hope this video clip works - it plays fine on my computer, on my phone, my other half's computer and on a piece of Microsoft crap from about 10 years ago that weighs a ton and takes forever to start up.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=330753410822197

Tom

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[gray198]

Lets see now, do you want evidence? how about this

1. Davis writes the introductory bill for the Referendum and it's advisory only
   
2. Cameron hides the fact it is advisory and promises to leave the EU the next day if the vote is leave
3. The leave campaign employs illegal means of mass persuasion, lies, money from in all probabilty a foreign source working against the unity of the EU, and employs false promises and the Tory Party know that
4. Cameron quits, and Boris quits too, shocked that his attempt to curry favour in leadership contest actually got a result that terrifies him in case he has to make it work and be made responsible
   
5. Then along comes an ambitious career failure TM to grab her moment of Glory and employs the chief idiots of the leave campaign as the "The Three Brexiteers Fox , Davis, Boris.

Not much point in going on, if you can't see you've been gulled by these pillocks, there's really no hope for you to develop the ability to make character judgements is there?

Yet you fear Corbyn because these idiots have issued dire warnings about him?
Halleluya!

and you think JC would have made a better job. He didn't campaign because he wants to leave, and now he doesn't know which way to go. Or does he just go the way which will get him most votes and try to cause as much mayhem as possible. Be like putting Frank Spencer in charge. I think you have quoted the Marx Bros.'' Here's my principles and if you don't like them I have another set'' Fits Corbyn to a tee

 

[gray198]

Merits you say? the only way you can make more money than your neighbours is to be a Tax Evader, or in on some racket.
It has nothing to do with merit, but a lot to do with being an unscrupulous greedy swindling shyster.
And the middle and working class fall for this, imagining they are not being swindled but actually benefit from being ripped off, and at the same time are frightened they might be parted from some of their money to help the rest of society.
Their motivation is mankinds oldest and purest emotions.
Fear and Greed

Seems to work well for Luxembourg Junckers old domain

 

[oldgroaner]

Seems to work well for Luxembourg Junckers old domain

and you think JC would have made a better job. He didn't campaign because he wants to leave, and now he doesn't know which way to go. Or does he just go the way which will get him most votes and try to cause as much mayhem as possible. Be like putting Frank Spencer in charge. I think you have quoted the Marx Bros.'' Here's my principles and if you don't like them I have another set'' Fits Corbyn to a tee

He wouldn't have been stupid enough to take such a Gamble in the first place would he? Unlike Cameron he has no reason to fear factions inside his own party displacing him.
And don't forget, I'm not a fan of his remember, my point is that no one can make Brexit work, can they, and let's face it your judgement of character is so poor that you now say you won't vote for the people you did before!
What a joke you make, praising Juncker and Luxembourg for having the same Tax dodging regimes as the government you say you wont vote for because they are threatening to use the same methods.
And you are against Corbyn who wants to put an end to that?
Do you know what you actually do want?
And once again you trot out the same old right wing propaganda about Corbyn even after they have done the dirty on you over the referendum.
Truly you need to do some serious thinking, check some facts and stop letting the press fill your head with propaganda.
And by the way a female version of Frank Spencer is in charge already, and look at the clowns jockeying for position to replace her! [emoji3]

 

[Zlatan]

Sounds like you need a Despair Party.
.

Corbyn would make a good leader... Never thought I, d say that.

 

[Zlatan]

I agree Corbyn is getting more support, all the work shy want it all for nowt types, oh and the loony left.
What makes me laugh is fools on here put him forward as some saviour then go on about how bad brexit is but fail to realise or mention fact that Corbyn is biggest euro sceptic in HoC.
I,d love Tom to try and explain that one...
What is it Tom says.. Brexidiots and all leavers are racist... Well what about Corbyn ?? Oh we make an exception for him cos he, s going to tax the hard working, wealthy, rich and landed gentry.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree Corbyn is getting more support, all the work shy want it all for nowt types, oh and the loony left.
What makes me laugh is fools on here put him forward as some saviour then go on about how bad brexit is but fail to realise or mention fact that Corbyn is biggest euro sceptic in HoC.
I,d love Tom to try and explain that one...
What is it Tom says.. Brexidiots and all leavers are racist... Well what about Corbyn ?? Oh we make an exception for him cos he, s going to tax the hard working, wealthy, rich and landed gentry.

Just one problem with your nonsense Corbyn voted for remain https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/745886722987294720?lang=en
So you are telling porkies yet again
Do please just for once get your facts right. [emoji41]

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[Woosh]

Oh we make an exception for him cos he, s going to tax the hard working, wealthy, rich and landed gentry.

I am for taxing those whose fortune is more than £10 millions. Just ask them to fill in:
- how much are you worth? £100 millions? you should pay £40 millions in tax. How much did you pay so far? £1 million? is that all? in that case, your tax bill is £39 millions. Pay now or we charge interest.