Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

From the Sun, do we have another Tory resignation on the cards?
"
FOX SHOT DOWN
Downing Street shoots down Liam Fox’s prediction that a no deal Brexit is now more likely
The International Trade Secretary angered Theresa May yesterday by claiming an EU exit without agreeing a future trade deal is now odds-on
The senior Tory blamed Brussels’ “intransigence” for the fresh impasse in talks after the EU Commission rejected the PM’s Chequers compromise plan.
Issuing a withering broadside at Eurocrats, Dr Fox said: “If the EU decides that the theological obsession of the unelected is to take priority over the economic well-being of the people of Europe then it’s a bureaucrats’ Brexit - not a people’s Brexit.
“There is only going to be one outcome.”

This "Unelected" accusation is fascinating as it applies to Cabinet Ministers, surely?
Are they not selected by their Mates?

 

[Zlatan]

From the Sun, do we have another Tory resignation on the cards?
"
FOX SHOT DOWN
Downing Street shoots

down Liam Fox’s prediction that a no deal Brexit is now more likely
The International Trade Secretary angered Theresa May yesterday by claiming an EU exit without agreeing a future trade deal is now odds-on
The senior Tory blamed Brussels’ “intransigence” for the fresh impasse in talks after the EU Commission rejected the PM’s Chequers compromise plan.
Issuing a withering broadside at Eurocrats, Dr Fox said: “If the EU decides that the theological obsession of the unelected is to take priority over the economic well-being of the people of Europe then it’s a bureaucrats’ Brexit - not a people’s Brexit.
“There is only going to be one outcome.”

This "Unelected" accusation is fascinating as it applies to Cabinet Ministers, surely?
Are they not selected by their Mates?

Come on OG he has a point. The EU are putting principles (experimental ones at that) before their own, and our, fiscal welfare.

 

[Woosh]

who cares that Liam Fox stays or goes?
Anything he said turns out to be idiotic, so why should it be true this time round?

 

[Woosh]

Come on OG he has a point. The EU are putting principles (experimental ones at that) before their own, and our, fiscal welfare.

it's just hot air, the EU has only to sort out A50, nothing more. Whatever deal TM comes up with has no legal value, what she wants is the transition deal and is prepared to pay a premium price for it (compared to 1% GDP contribution if we remain). If they still disagree until the last hour, they can always say 'there will be an FTA' and that's done.

 

[oldgroaner]

Come on OG he has a point. The EU are putting principles (experimental ones at that) before their own, and our, fiscal welfare.

Not so they haven't changed their position have they?

 

[Zlatan]

Not so they haven't changed their position have they?

Of course not. It's negotiating best deal. They are playing poker. All of them.
Both sides must give impression they are willing to go to wall before giving in to others demands. Hence our planning for no deal. Come on OG, you must have negotiated at some time.

 

[oldgroaner]

Of course not. It's negotiating best deal. They are playing poker. All of them.
Both sides must give impression they are willing to go to wall before giving in to others demands. Hence our planning for no deal. Come on OG, you must have negotiated at some time.

Very much so, as I represented the company where there were site disputes and claims.
The difference here is that we have more at stake.
And what we think are our advantages are dubious when it comes to reliability.
It's also a case of re running the Dunkirk evacuation without planning operation Dynamo or even gathering the little ships. while it is happening.
And hoping for a last minute victory so preparations won't be necessary.

We are faced with the biggest defeat in our history, created by our own side, aided and abetted by the most incompetent Government ever, and a large section of the electorate bamboozled by Media and Press into rooting for something that equates with slashing your own wrists.

Great isn't it? a grandstand seat at the inglorious end of something we will sorely miss in future.

 

[Zlatan]

Very much so, as I represented the company where there were site disputes and claims.
The difference here is that we have more at stake.
And what we think are our advantages are dubious when it comes to reliability.
It's also a case of re running the Dunkirk evacuation without planning operation Dynamo or even gathering the little ships. while it is happening.
And hoping for a last minute victory so preparations won't be necessary.

We are faced with the biggest defeat in our history, created by our own side, aided and abetted by the most incompetent Government ever, and a large section of the electorate bamboozled by Media and Press into rooting for something that equates with slashing your own wrists.

Great isn't it? a grandstand seat at the inglorious end of something we will sorely miss in future.

"Don't panic Captain Mainwairing !"

 

[flecc]

Come on OG he has a point. The EU are putting principles (experimental ones at that) before their own, and our, fiscal welfare.

No they aren't, they are merely applying the rules that apply to all members and which we have previously fully agreed to. Ergo, the rules are in no way experimental, just well established ones that all the other members understand, as David Cameron found out when he tried to get a special deal from each of them.

It's the UK that is entirely in the wrong, as usual wanting a special deal only for us and ignoring what we've previously agreed to. The EU is honouring it's side by sticking to the rules, so should we.
.

 

[Woosh]

a common misconception is that TM and her brexit team are negotiating the UK/EU future relationship. We may try but the EU is not negotiating. Yes, they pick holes in what we'd like to see but they don't have to make any offer and they won't.
That will come after we have left.

 

[tillson]

All of the accusations regarding who is to blame and who is at fault are irrelevant. I see some MPs are now saying the French are being obstructive and preventing a deal. This too is irrelevant.

We were promised by parliament that we would leave the EU and prosper as a result of leaving. They now face the task of taking responsibility for that statement and delivering it. Or if they are unable to fulfill the responsibilities which they have taken on, doing the correct thing and admitting the fact. To blame the French or the EU for considering their own interests ahead of the UK’s is ridiculous.

The hour has arrived, it is now time for our leaders to stand up, take on the responsibilities which they accepted and to deliver. In the coming months we shall discover whether they are tungsten fisted, hard nosed negotiators or shite-sodden, chinless bell-ends. I’ve already placed my bet.

 

[oldtom]

FOX SHOT DOWN

This "Unelected" accusation is fascinating as it applies to Cabinet Ministers, surely?
Are they not selected by their Mates?

For some silly reason, I'm reminded of the Oscar Wilde remark about foxhunters and the animal they seek to brutalise:

'The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'.

Very few foxes survive once identified and chased down.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

That will come after we have left.

Ever the optimist 'Woosh'!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

"I have every faith in you...... Even if nobody else has! Corporal Jones

"Don't panic Captain Mainwairing !"

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

Ever the optimist 'Woosh'!

Tom

that's in the treaties we signed.

Article 50

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

A50 must come first, pay the divorce bill and make a political declaration of the future relationship. There is no deal, no negotiation on a deal before we've left.

 

[oldgroaner]

My version is better
The unspeakable in pursuit of the non taxable

For some silly reason, I'm reminded of the Oscar Wilde remark about foxhunters and the animal they seek to brutalise:

'The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'.

Very few foxes survive once identified and chased down.

Tom

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldtom]

that's in the treaties we signed.
A50 must come first, pay the divorce bill and make a political declaration of the future relationship. There is no deal, no negotiation on a deal before we've left.

Most of us are perfectly aware of the order of events but you seem to imagine that, once out of the EU, the 27 are going to agree to give the UK everything we have now for free.

Any deal will mean worse terms for the UK than those we enjoy currently and that simply has to be the case. Your optimism is misplaced but you may find some interesting information about survival after 'Brexit' in this little gem:



Tom

 

[oyster]

What wonderful times we live in. Thank you, Guardian...

German factory orders slump; Brexit fears push pound to 11-month low – business live
All the day’s economic and financial news, as Germany’s manufacturers suffer a big drop in new orders, and China blasts Donald Trump

• Latest: Brexit worries send pound to 11-month low
• Chinese media accuse Trump of extortion
• Introduction: German factory orders slump 4%
  
• It’s the biggest drop in almost 18 months
  
• Economy ministry blames trade tensions
• Experts: Horrendous data

 

[shemozzle999]

What wonderful times we live in. Thank you, Guardian...

German factory orders slump; Brexit fears push pound to 11-month low – business live
All the day’s economic and financial news, as Germany’s manufacturers suffer a big drop in new orders, and China blasts Donald Trump

• Latest: Brexit worries send pound to 11-month low
• Chinese media accuse Trump of extortion
• Introduction: German factory orders slump 4%
  
• It’s the biggest drop in almost 18 months
  
• Economy ministry blames trade tensions
• Experts: Horrendous data

not all the news:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/999337/Brexit-news-Project-Fear-UK

 

[oyster]

not all the news:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/999337/Brexit-news-Project-Fear-UK

If that is such wonderful news, how come the slide in the pound? How come Fox is saying no-deal likely? If those export figures are that wonderful, bear in mind, they have been achieved whilst inside the EU. So why leave?