Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

a second referendum is not as good as a fresh general election.

The problem with another GE is that its not specific enough. May's last GE was heavily influenced by Social Care finance/taking out houses....it could happen again.
We need a second referendum,with a simple vote...take May's deal or stay in,crashing out is not an option.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

He may well have been but this article from Wikipedia is enlightening:

Early life[edit]

William Brooke Joyce was born on Herkimer Street in Brooklyn, New York,[2] United States. His father was Michael Francis Joyce (9 December 1866 – 19 February 1941) an Irish Catholic from a family of farmers in Ballinrobe, County Mayo, who had taken United States citizenship on 25 October 1894. His mother was Gertrude Emily Brooke, who although born in Shaw and Crompton, Lancashire, England, was from a well-off Anglican Anglo-Irish family of medical practitioners associated with County Roscommon.

A few years after William's birth, the family returned to Salthill, Galway, permanently. Joyce attended St Ignatius College, a Jesuit school in Galway (from 1915–21). Joyce's mother was strongly Anglocentric and despite tensions with her father for marrying a Catholic, remained staunchly Protestant and Unionist herself, hostile to Irish nationalism. Joyce's father bought up houses and rented some to the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC).

During the Irish War for Independence that Joyce was recruited by Capt. Patrick William Keating as a courier for British Army intelligence in Galway, who were then fighting against the Irish Republican Army.[3][4] He was known to have hung around with Black and Tans at Lenaboy Castle, which reportedly resulted in the Irish Republican Army dispatching a volunteer, Michael Molloy, to murder Joyce on his way home from school in December 1921, although minors were normally excluded from being executed by the IRA, usually being expelled or ostracised. Joyce reputedly survived only because his father had moved his family to another house on a different route. Capt. Keating arranged for William Joyce to be mustered into the Worcester Regiment soon after, taking him out of the dangerous situation in Ireland to Norton Barracks. A few months later he was discharged when it was found out he was underage.[5]

Joyce remained in England and briefly attended King's College School, Wimbledon, on a foreign exchange. His family followed him to England two years later, having backed the losing side in the conflict in Ireland. Joyce had relatives in Birkenhead, Cheshire, whom he visited on a few occasions. He then applied to Birkbeck College of the University of London, where he entered the Officer Training Corps. At Birkbeck, he obtained a first-class honours degree.[6] He also developed an interest in Fascism, and he worked with (but never joined) the British Fascists of Rotha Lintorn-Orman.

On 22 October 1924, while stewarding a meeting in support of Jack Lazarus (the Conservative Party candidate for Lambeth North in the general election),[7] Joyce was attacked by Communists and received a deep razor slash that ran across his right cheek. It left a permanent scar which ran from the earlobe to the corner of the mouth.[8] While Joyce often said that his attackers were Jewish, biographer Colin Holmes claims that Joyce's first wife told him in 1992 that "it wasn't a Jewish Communist who disfigured him .... He was knifed by an Irish woman".[9]

Interestingly, 'Wiki' has two entries about the man, one under his real name and the other using his 'Lord Haw-Haw' sobriquet.

Tom

.. well I would not have known about where he was born, but the dates he lived in Salthill Galway are consistent with our family history.

 

[oyster]

The problem with another GE is that its not specific enough. May's last GE was heavily influenced by Social Care finance/taking out houses....it could happen again.
We need a second referendum,with a simple vote...take May's deal or stay in,crashing out is not an option.
KudosDave

Maybe crashing out isn't an option - but as a third option it might help to split the non-remain vote. Isn't that part of the reason for changing things?

Those who are complaining about Project Fear would to well to realise that repeated threats of crashing out have been the best recruiting SM to avoiding the possibility. The more they go on about it, the more people are worried about it. If it ends up with my favoured result, good.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's another example of an institution that produces nothing that might be in the interests of the ordinary people of the UK. The Institute for Economic Affairs does not work for anyone except corporate business and the tory Party - check out Mark Littlewood's previous!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=233570930815775

Tom

First let me agree with this post and offer some useful advice
When Tom posts a Video go for a lie down

 

[Wicky]

What we need is simply a cross party, free vote in the HoC so that MPs can put national interests above party lines.

or bring back King Arthur...

 

[oldgroaner]

Tom, you've done it again with that video the forum is doing the Lambada, I'm having to respond on my android phone!

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

The problem with another GE is that its not specific enough. May's last GE was heavily influenced by Social Care finance/taking out houses....it could happen again.
We need a second referendum,with a simple vote...take May's deal or stay in,crashing out is not an option.
KudosDave

the conservative party won't support a second referendum unless TM fails to get a transition deal.
For the next step, you need the government to propose the relevant legislation, whatever it is.

 

[oldgroaner]

This is the Goverment assessment figures

 

[Woosh]

it'll take a few years to pay for brexit - perhaps most of us who have to pay for brexit are not as rich as those who want a clean cut with the EU.

 

[Danidl]

This is the Goverment assessment figures

..no gain, all pain , The old Acorn Archimedes had a game called lemmings, where a legion of blue clad pixels plunged to their doom, and ones task to to delay the inevitable.. ..I hadn't realised it was prophecy.

 

[Crockers]

A problem of a 2nd referendum is that if the EU know we will vote on the deal, and they want us to remain, then all they have to do is give us a crap deal.

I'm totally against Brexit and feel we need a say. But how?!

 

[Nev]

A problem of a 2nd referendum is that if the EU know we will vote on the deal, and they want us to remain, then all they have to do is give us a crap deal.

I'm totally against Brexit and feel we need a say. But how?!

+1 on this.

 

[Woosh]

I'm totally against Brexit and feel we need a say. But how?!

you'd want the current government to have no deal, no transition.
that'll help TM to ask for a change of direction.

 

[Kudoscycles]

A number of councils, including East Sussex, are worried about the provision of social care after Brexit because of the potential fall in the number of EU nationals working in the sector.

According to Sky, East Sussex’s report says: “There has already been a fall in the number of EU nationals taking jobs in the care sector and the county council has great concerns that the end of freedom of movement will put further pressure on the sector that is already stretched and struggling to deliver the level of care required for our ageing elderly population.”

A number of councils have expressed concern about the disappearance of various EU funding streams and whether thethe Treasury would step in to replace them.

The local authority in the Shetlands released a document saying that tariffs on lamb exports under a no-deal Brexit would mean 86% of sheep farms could expect to make losses. The current figure is about 50%.

 

[tommie]

The local authority in the Shetlands released a document saying that tariffs on lamb exports under a no-deal Brexit would mean 86% of sheep farms could expect to make losses.

Ohhhhh.... NO!!!

Right, we've had:

No flights,
no food,
no medicine.
No work,
no coffee,
no NHS.
Disease, famine, fear & lawlessness.
Army on standby,
UK on lockdown
& Zimbabwe held up as an example of a superior democracy ...lol!.

And now horror of horrors, Shetland sheep farmers to make a loss??!!

What a pathetic bunch of desperate panic stricken Remoaners

So what else have you got, Mr Fear?

(Oh and i forgot those sandwiches)

 

[flecc]

Ohhhhh.... NO!!!

Right, we've had:

No flights,
no food,
no medicine.
No work,
no coffee,
no NHS.
Disease, famine, fear & lawlessness.
Army on standby,
UK on lockdown
& Zimbabwe held up as an example of a superior democracy ...lol!.

And now horror of horrors, Shetland sheep farmers to make a loss??!!

No, we've had none of those, they are your Brexiter exaggerations. trying to discredit Remainers with lies.
.

 

[tommie]

Hey flecc, i`ve heard a rumour from the remoaning scaremongers that venetian blinds will no longer be imported into the UK


i tell you what, if that happens it’s going to be Curtains for all of us.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ohhhhh.... NO!!!

Right, we've had:

No flights,
no food,
no medicine.
No work,
no coffee,
no NHS.
Disease, famine, fear & lawlessness.
Army on standby,
UK on lockdown
& Zimbabwe held up as an example of a superior democracy ...lol!.

And now horror of horrors, Shetland sheep farmers to make a loss??!!

What a pathetic bunch of desperate panic stricken Remoaners

So what else have you got, Mr Fear?

(Oh and i forgot those sandwiches)

No, we've had none of those, they are your Brexiter exaggerations. trying to discredit Remainers with lies.
.

Tommie those figures are from the Government you were daft enough to trust to get you a good Brexit deal, and run the country afterwards for your benefit
They are not from Remainers, just calculated by Your Government,
Which is the one that said Brexit is Brexit, No deal is better than a bad deal.
But you come on here laughing at them now and call it remainer propaganda.
You seem to be utterly confused, this was your side speaking.
Can you explain why you think that's funny?
And why you imagine this will work out to your advantage?
How can you trust them now?
They have swindled you, haven't they?

 

[oldgroaner]

Hey flecc, i`ve heard a rumour from the remoaning scaremongers that venetian blinds will no longer be imported into the UK


i tell you what, if that happens it’s going to be Curtains for all of us.

Is that at attempt at humour?
Here's a better joke
Did you hear the one about the Northern Ireland Brexit voter who absolutely refuses to face facts that the Conservatives have conned him, they went ahead with Article Fifty only to find out at the last minute we can't afford it, and by their own figures Northern Ireland will be one of the worst areas to suffer.

And the best part of the joke is the DUP he so admires supported the people who are about to damage his standard of living?

And now because he has no answer he tries to make childish jokes instead?
Well done, your sense of humour is to be admired.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ohhhhh.... NO!!!

Right, we've had:

No flights,
no food,
no medicine.
No work,
no coffee,
no NHS.
Disease, famine, fear & lawlessness.
Army on standby,
UK on lockdown
& Zimbabwe held up as an example of a superior democracy ...lol!.

And now horror of horrors, Shetland sheep farmers to make a loss??!!

What a pathetic bunch of desperate panic stricken Remoaners

So what else have you got, Mr Fear?

(Oh and i forgot those sandwiches)

Never mind all that rubbish are you saying you don't agree with the figures your Brexit is Brexit government has produced?