Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Really?!

They're almost all on the Pacific seaboard or have far easier access to it than us. What would we sell to them, a UK made Japanese car when they already have them locally? And that far outside the EU means we have no aircraft industry.

Bromptons, Harris Tweed and the Duke of Cornwall's speciality produce isn't going to support 65 millions of us.
.

There are currently 5 scenarios for brexit, most likely first:

- Chequers model
- transition then WTO
- transition then remain in SM and CU (if JC wins).
- Norway (if JC wins).
- WTO (if ERG wins)

we will still be trading with the EU in any case.

 

[oldgroaner]

A little, and that's the problem

There are currently 5 scenarios for brexit, most likely first:

- Chequers model
- transition then WTO
- transition then remain in SM and CU (if JC wins).
- Norway (if JC wins).
- WTO (if ERG wins)

we will still be trading with the EU in any case.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

This"Possibly more prosperous" notion is merely a pipedream.
Who in their right mind risks the future of the next generation so irresponsibly?
Who are we doing this to benefit?
People should be asking who wins, and who loses?
Considering thre is no plan, and no evidence it is likely to be anything other than a disaster,why does anyone imagine it's a good idea?
You couldn't get backing to start a business with better planning than that.

if I were to deliver WTO brexit, I'd look very closely at joining the Trans Pacific Partnership. We'll lose big time in Europe but make up some losses with a possibly more prosperous future in Asia and US..

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

No, it's not quite as you imagine. The point they make is Government, opposition, remainer and leaver alike are all concentrating on Brexit whilst many things are getting neglected. It does make you wonder how MPs fill their time when not arguing about Brexit.. The article is quite neutral in its stance, perhaps remain?
Just for example CBI has written to Government and expressed worry about late and indecisive stance on Heathrow. Business can, and will, cope with policy changes. Business and markets in general struggle with indecision and procrastination or pure neglect by Government.
Personally think we, ve already missed boat to reap any rewards with Brexit. It seems to me the majority was simply insufficient to leave and ASAP. I do now think to leave at least a 10% majority should have been required. Leaving as we are is not really leaving.
A hard Brexit was an impossibility with a 4% majority. We are, as I predicted months ago, going to end up not really in and not really out. The worst of both worlds, with probably benefits of neither.
I don't think we would be in this mess had we had a viable opposition. Labour are equally to blame for this fiasco.

As for there being no opportunities for UK outside EU I still think I, d take Peter Hargreaves' advice over OG's.
https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3032191/rich-list-peter-hargreaves-jumps-into-the-top-50-while-odeys-wealth-falls-gbp25m

I wonder if PH would pass judgement on a link without reading it. I doubt it.

Zlatlan, .. I can agree with the overall tenor of your posting. The legislature of the uk has been paralyzed by the BREXIt beast. The assumption that all would have been OK had the UK government acted in a more structured, assertive, manner with EU , is however fantasy. I agree that a 4% variance between both sides of the divide meant that a huge degree of alignment with eu norms was indicated , but the hype on the BREXIt side has precluded that.

 

[Woosh]

This"Possibly more prosperous" notion is merely a pipedream.
Who in their right mind risks the future of the next generation so irresponsibly?
Who are we doing this to benefit?
People should be asking who wins, and who loses?
Considering thre is no plan, and no evidence it is likely to be anything other than a disaster,why does anyone imagine it's a good idea?
You couldn't get backing to start a business with better planning than that.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

I have not evaluated the potential of joining the Trans Pacific Partnership so I can't give you any supporting facts and figures but I do know how dynamic, resourceful and hard working the Pacific rim countries are, there is a lot of potential for growth, some say much better that old Europe, about 40% of global GDP, more than twice the current EU28, thrice the EU27.
The fact that the TPP is not as complex a structure as the EU should suit UK businesses better.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, it's not quite as you imagine. The point they make is Government, opposition, remainer and leaver alike are all concentrating on Brexit whilst many things are getting neglected. It does make you wonder how MPs fill their time when not arguing about Brexit.. The article is quite neutral in its stance, perhaps remain?
Just for example CBI has written to Government and expressed worry about late and indecisive stance on Heathrow. Business can, and will, cope with policy changes. Business and markets in general struggle with indecision and procrastination or pure neglect by Government.
Personally think we, ve already missed boat to reap any rewards with Brexit. It seems to me the majority was simply insufficient to leave and ASAP. I do now think to leave at least a 10% majority should have been required. Leaving as we are is not really leaving.
A hard Brexit was an impossibility with a 4% majority. We are, as I predicted months ago, going to end up not really in and not really out. The worst of both worlds, with probably benefits of neither.
I don't think we would be in this mess had we had a viable opposition. Labour are equally to blame for this fiasco.

As for there being no opportunities for UK outside EU I still think I, d take Peter Hargreaves' advice over OG's.
https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3032191/rich-list-peter-hargreaves-jumps-into-the-top-50-while-odeys-wealth-falls-gbp25m

I wonder if PH would pass judgement on a link without reading it. I doubt it.

Another link that you can't read without a subscription!
And the like of Peter Hargreaves have no interest in the poorer people only themselves, why should I regard his advice as anything other than anti social?

 

[oldgroaner]

I have not evaluated the potential of joining the Trans Pacific Partnership so I can't give you any supporting facts and figures but I do know how dynamic, resourceful and hard working the Pacific rim countries are, there is a lot of potential for growth, some say much better that old Europe, about 40% of global GDP, more than twice the current EU28, thrice the EU27.
The fact that the TPP is not as complex a structure as the EU should suit UK businesses better.

I see you have spotted the "Fly in the ointment"
"but I do know how dynamic, resourceful and hard working the Pacific rim countries are."

Are you trying to say that this country is any of those things?

 

[ianboydsnr]

Well it can only be called a success if A50 is withdrawn, if we leave under WTO, then it may be a success long term, I suspect not but the possibility is there, the middle way as proposed is the losers way, those who want to stay in get a much worse deal, those that want to leave completely get a worse deal, sure trade goes on, we can’t even blame the brexiteers, because they don’t want that either, though some will anyway,

Mad as a box of frogs if you ask me.

 

[Woosh]

Mad as a box of frogs if you ask me.

brexit comes with costs that voters who voted for it prefer not to know.
The only possible compromise is the one where nobody wins, everyone loses a little.
In that, Chequers model seems to be the way forward.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I give you a practical example: e-bike sellers.
we can compete better against German made bikes if we have WTO brexit.
It's not just e-bikes, machinery too.

Possibly ,but dont forget that TM has already agreed a 'common rule book'...that means that whatever tariff is placed on e-bikes we already have agreed to it in the future....it is there to protect our UK e-bike industry,hehe !!!!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

it is there to protect our UK e-bike industry,hehe !!!!!!!

all duty money goes to EU coffers - the UK gets paid 20% commision to collect for the EU. That's why I think WTO has its merit.

 

[oldgroaner]

brexit comes with costs that voters who voted for it prefer not to know.
The only possible compromise is the one where nobody wins, everyone loses a little.
In that, Chequers model seems to be the way forward.

What a calamitous situation you have summed up nicely.

What an absolutely ridiculous situation because no one has the courage to say Brexit is Cancelled, can we have article 50 back please.

 

[Woosh]

What a calamitous situation you have summed up nicely.

What an absolutely ridiculous situation because no one has the courage to say Brexit is Cancelled, can we have article 50 back please.

you need the situation to be so ridiculous that common sense will prevail at long last.
As I said, Chequers way is a way forward.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There are currently 5 scenarios for brexit, most likely first:

- Chequers model
- transition then WTO
- transition then remain in SM and CU (if JC wins).
- Norway (if JC wins).
- WTO (if ERG wins)

we will still be trading with the EU in any case.

6th one....a watered down Chequers model that is so close to staying in but will be packaged like we left,man from Huddersfield wont notice as he downs another pint of Special Brew.
Barnier is right we are 80% there,just a few more tweaks and we will have a perfect copy of staying in.
Raab and Gove will sell it to the nation and TM will look a hero and win a landslide at the next election.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

all duty money goes to EU coffers - the UK gets paid 20% commision to collect for the EU. That's why I think WTO has its merit.

And no doubt the WTO will ensure better environmental and social legislation?
No of course it won't

 

[oldgroaner]

6th one....a watered down Chequers model that is so close to staying in but will be packaged like we left,man from Huddersfield wont notice as he downs another pint of Special Brew.
Barnier is right we are 80% there,just a few more tweaks and we will have a perfect copy of staying in.
Raab and Gove will sell it to the nation and TM will look a hero and win a landslide at the next election.
KudosDave

And the nation will still be entirely at the mercy of the pack of rats that caused it's distress in the first place.
Quite simply the worst possible outcome.

 

[Woosh]

And no doubt the WTO will ensure better environmental and social legislation?
No of course it won't

in the Chequers proposal, we get to keep import duty and we'll adopt EU environmental and workers protection.

 

[oldgroaner]

in the Chequers proposal, we get to keep import duty and we'll adopt EU environmental and workers protection.

I don't believe that for a minute

 

[Woosh]

I don't believe that for a minute

the EU will insist on these standards anyway, just in case UK government tries to cheat.
TM will fudge on FOM and the ECJ.

 

[oldgroaner]

the EU will insist on these standards anyway, just in case UK government tries to cheat.

As we did with the Jeans situation?