Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

London must indeed be a wonderful place if the streets are paved in Electric Car charging points!
Which i tried to indicate was a common problem

Not paved of course, there can never be enough, but we are much better off than many locations.

Still way off subject though and not relevant, since people buy an e-car after establishing they will have sufficient charging facilities in suitable places for their purposes. I'm still a long way off receiving my e-car but know all the facilities in the areas that I will or might frequent and how the charger positions relate to my journeys.

In my case virtually all charging will solely be at home in my garage, since my longest summer journey that could occur (132 miles) is comfortably within the 185 mile real world range of the model I'm considering.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not paved of course, there can never be enough, but we are much better off than many locations.

Still way off subject though and not relevant, since people buy an e-car after establishing they will have sufficient charging facilities in suitable places for their purposes. I'm still a long way off receiving my e-car but know all the facilities in the areas that I will or might frequent and how the charger positions relate to my journeys.

In my case virtually all charging will solely be at home in my garage, since my longest summer journey that could occur (132 miles) is comfortably within the 185 mile real world range of the model I'm considering.
.

It would be interesting to see what proportion of the population actually do live where they can charge these vehicles, they are at this stage unsuitable for general use where longer journeys may be required or desirable, and as in Castleton, where the Houses are built in a street with no garages, the single charging point is the only one in a ten mile radius, fortunately only two cars use it, one of them being a Tesla, the other a Nissan Leaf!
To make matters worse the village is always almost completely Parked up solidly, and this makes the Charging point inaccessible for long periods of time.
In theory Charging points rather like Parking Meters could solve the problem, but against that the main street is so narrow most vehicles park on what little pavement there is.

I suspect that many people put as much thought about the limitations of Ecars as they did into voting for Brexit, assuming the situation they would be faced with was a benign one.

 

[Zlatan]

It would be interesting to see what proportion of the population actually do live where they can charge these vehicles, they are at this stage unsuitable for general use where longer journeys may be required or desirable, and as in Castleton, where the Houses are built in a street with no garages, the single charging point is the only one in a ten mile radius, fortunately only two cars use it, one of them being a Tesla, the other a Nissan Leaf!
To make matters worse the village is always almost completely Parked up solidly, and this makes the Charging point inaccessible for long periods of time.
In theory Charging points rather like Parking Meters could solve the problem, but against that the main street is so narrow most vehicles park on what little pavement there is.

I suspect that many people put as much thought about the limitations of Ecars as they did into voting for Brexit, assuming the situation they would be faced with was a benign one.

There is an easy solution, just carry a good powerful generator in the boot. Hondas are really quiet, passers by would hardly know it was charging car whilst parked wherever you want.
Car would still attract no tax, T charge or congestion charge. What a result. Range and convenience of a petrol car and running costs of electric. Mobile charging stations run on generators could solve problem for those needing luggage space..???

 

[flecc]

It would be interesting to see what proportion of the population actually do live where they can charge these vehicles, they are at this stage unsuitable for general use where longer journeys may be required or desirable, and as in Castleton, where the Houses are built in a street with no garages, the single charging point is the only one in a ten mile radius, fortunately only two cars use it, one of them being a Tesla, the other a Nissan Leaf!
To make matters worse the village is always almost completely Parked up solidly, and this makes the Charging point inaccessible for long periods of time.
In theory Charging points rather like Parking Meters could solve the problem, but against that the main street is so narrow most vehicles park on what little pavement there is.

Fully agree, which is just one of the two reasons they will never displace i.c cars. The other being the inadequate infrastructure of course.

I suspect that many people put as much thought about the limitations of Ecars as they did into voting for Brexit, assuming the situation they would be faced with was a benign one.

This simply isn't true, a fabrication to suit your argument. Given the cost an e-car they investigate very fully and there are numerous forums they use to do it. What used to be true a long time ago was that car makers dishonesty about range (just like e-bikes) misled some to make an unwise purchase.

But that's long been changed since the car makers recoiled from the onslaught they deservedly got. For a some while now they've been very honest, not only quoting the realistic range as well as the theoretical figure, but also publishing the much lower winter case in very cold weather when battery efficiency drops.

For example Nissan quote the new Nissan Leaf with this set of figures:

Theoretical by the old standard = 235 miles

Realistic summer best range = 185 miles

Realistic Winter minimum range = 125 miles

New WLTP standard mixed town/country = 168 miles

And owners bear these out. One in this forum has said he drives hard without any attempt to conserve current and never gets less than 3 miles per kWh. Since the car I'm quoting has a 40 kWh battery you can see that is born out in practice. Most drivers use the built in regenerating facilities and do better as a result.

The other main maker, Renault, quotes just as honestly now.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is an easy solution, just carry a good powerful generator in the boot. Hondas are really quiet, passers by would hardly know it was charging car whilst parked wherever you want.
Car would still attract no tax, T charge or congestion charge. What a result. Range and convenience of a petrol car and running costs of electric. Mobile charging stations run on generators could solve problem for those needing luggage space..???

Very amusing, carry a powerful Generator with no Catalytic Converter and lord knows what emissions in the boot of a car to charge an Electric Car.
Sort of goes against the spirit of the thing don't you think?
Just a couple of problems with that as you can imagine.

1. The legal position (Leaving Generator running unattended in enclosed space for instance. and possible Fire risk)
2. It would make an interesting Insurance Claim if things catch fire!
3. How big a Genny would you need? a 2kw HondaEU20i is a cool £1,125! and even at that it would fill the average boot and drink a lot of Unleaded.

A better plan would be to park next to a Fairground Showman's Traction Engine and apply some Jumper leads and big Croc clips to his belt driven generator.

Still I love the idea on the grounds of lateral thinking out of the box

 

[oyster]

I don't think I,ve ever seen or heard of anyone dying from CO2

Nor have I in the sense of knowing someone. But I have read a couple of mentions - I think regarding solid carbon dioxide in a confined space.

Toxicol Rev. 2005;24(4):229-35.
Carbon dioxide poisoning.
Langford NJ1.
Author information
Abstract
Carbon dioxide is a physiologically important gas, produced by the body as a result of cellular metabolism. It is widely used in the food industry in the carbonation of beverages, in fire extinguishers as an 'inerting' agent and in the chemical industry. Its main mode of action is as an asphyxiant, although it also exerts toxic effects at cellular level. At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect. At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations >10% may cause convulsions, coma and death. Solid carbon dioxide may cause burns following direct contact. If it is warmed rapidly, large amounts of carbon dioxide are generated, which can be dangerous, particularly within confined areas. The management of carbon dioxide poisoning requires the immediate removal of the casualty from the toxic environment, the administration of oxygen and appropriate supportive care. In severe cases, assisted ventilation may be required. Dry ice burns are treated similarly to other cryogenic burns, requiring thawing of the tissue and suitable analgesia. Healing may be delayed and surgical intervention may be required in severe cases.

PMID:
16499405
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16499405

 

[oldgroaner]

Comedy as usual in the Express
"
Theresa May's five-point ultimatum to EU in Brussels Brexit showdown
THERESA May will issue a five-point ultimatum to Brussels to ensure Britain gets the Brexit deal that the country voted for in the EU referendum. In a bold speech mapping out her vision for an "ambitious" trading partnership the bloc, the Prime Minister will set out the crucial tests which any agreement must meet."

Can someone explain why anyone believes this rubbish?
The Mc Enroe comment
"You cannot be serious!" applies.
When you want something the other party isn't actually bothered that much about giving you
Ultimatums are definitely not in order!

 

[Woosh]

her 5 tests are a repetition of what she said before:

"implementing the decision of the British people; reaching an enduring solution; protecting our security and prosperity; delivering an outcome that is consistent with the kind of country we want to be; and bringing our country together, strengthening the precious union of all our people."

I can't see how the EU can find anything new in that.

 

[Steb]

Not paved of course, there can never be enough, but we are much better off than many locations.

Still way off subject though and not relevant, since people buy an e-car after establishing they will have sufficient charging facilities in suitable places for their purposes. I'm still a long way off receiving my e-car but know all the facilities in the areas that I will or might frequent and how the charger positions relate to my journeys.

In my case virtually all charging will solely be at home in my garage, since my longest summer journey that could occur (132 miles) is comfortably within the 185 mile real world range of the model I'm considering.
.

I was in the same position and would triple check that range, a 40 kwh Zoe does at most 120 miles in winter and, to avoid developing generalised anxiety disorder, one has to leave 20% or so for emergencies. Summer will of course be further, but I'd end up doing 140 miles on eco if I had to do it in a Zoe, which, really, wouldn't be fun. The economics of owning an ev is funny, if you live in London near a tesla fast charger and buy, say, a three year old s, it's free to use (and really a quick 30min coffee to charge and can be had for about twice the price of a battery owned zoe

 

[Wicky]

Nor have I in the sense of knowing someone. But I have read a couple of mentions - I think regarding solid carbon dioxide in a confined space.

snip

Astronaut Scott Kelly complained about CO2 levels on the space station in his book Endurance - higher concentration allowed compared to submarines.

https://www.airspacemag.com/daily-planet/why-living-space-can-be-pain-head-180951507/

Plus https://www.airspacemag.com/space/scott-kellys-year-space-180953946/?all

"First are the “pernicious” things, Shelhamer says. Some astronauts get post-flight kidney stones, and “the prevalence is troubling.” The incidence was higher after six-month ISS missions than after two-week Space Shuttle deployments. Kidney stones, as anyone who has ever had one knows, are no fun.

High concentrations of calcium oxalate in the bloodstream cause stones to form in the kidneys. Bone loss might be the culprit, but NASA’s current best guess is that the high level of carbon dioxide in the ISS air supply is to blame: It’s 10 to 20 times what we breathe on Earth.

“CO2 is acidic,” Shelhamer says. “One way your body deals with it is by buffering your bloodstream with calcium.” If a limited time in space causes kidney stones, more time might make them more likely."

 

[oldgroaner]

her 5 tests are a repetition of what she said before:

"implementing the decision of the British people; reaching an enduring solution; protecting our security and prosperity; delivering an outcome that is consistent with the kind of country we want to be; and bringing our country together, strengthening the precious union of all our people."

I can't see how the EU can find anything new in that.

Or anything constructive to the debate either!

 

[oldtom]

"implementing the decision of the British people; reaching an enduring solution; protecting our security and prosperity; delivering an outcome that is consistent with the kind of country we want to be; and bringing our country together, strengthening the precious union of all our people."

She has nothing new to say so just alters the order of words a little......it is simply verbal diarrhoea.

May has to be the most untalented PM the UK has ever had. She is an embarrassment to the nation!

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Or anything constructive to the debate either!

credit to her, anyone else in her position - held prisoner by JRM's European Research Group, wouldn't do much better. She managed so far to keep to the time table. Next big step is to agree on the transition period.
The hard brexiters know that if we manage to agree on the transition, their chance of hard brexit after the transition will be much lower than now.
Businesses will have more time to pressure government(s) for staying close to the EU.

 

[Woosh]

Latest polls confirm more voters are switching to remain.

It was neck and neck up to May 2017, the margin is now 4% (52/48 from 48/52) and seems to be accelerating.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/?removed

If you extrapolate this trend further, a referendum in 2020 would see brexit reversed with a margin 60/40.
Hard brexiters have no other choice than pushing for hard brexit now rather than wait.

 

[Zlatan]

Nor have I in the sense of knowing someone. But I have read a couple of mentions - I think regarding solid carbon dioxide in a confined space.

Toxicol Rev. 2005;24(4):229-35.
Carbon dioxide poisoning.
Langford NJ1.
Author information
Abstract
Carbon dioxide is a physiologically important gas, produced by the body as a result of cellular metabolism. It is widely used in the food industry in the carbonation of beverages, in fire extinguishers as an 'inerting' agent and in the chemical industry. Its main mode of action is as an asphyxiant, although it also exerts toxic effects at cellular level. At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect. At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations >10% may cause convulsions, coma and death. Solid carbon dioxide may cause burns following direct contact. If it is warmed rapidly, large amounts of carbon dioxide are generated, which can be dangerous, particularly within confined areas. The management of carbon dioxide poisoning requires the immediate removal of the casualty from the toxic environment, the administration of oxygen and appropriate supportive care. In severe cases, assisted ventilation may be required. Dry ice burns are treated similarly to other cryogenic burns, requiring thawing of the tissue and suitable analgesia. Healing may be delayed and surgical intervention may be required in severe cases.

PMID:
16499405
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16499405

Even the nominal inert gases produce narcotic effects under pressure. Nitrogen ( yes I know its not one of the inert gases)has to be removed from breathing gases below 130 ft to avoid Nitrogen narcosis. For many years Heliox ( around 5% O2/ 95% Helium, figures vary according to depth of dive)was the first choice for deep dives ( and still is in commercial sense) but even Helium does have problems...( beyond pure asphyxiation with the low %age of O2 needed)
Amazingly Hydrogen is used on extreme dives ( Hydrox, 4% O2 96% Hydrogen) Under extreme pressures it seems Hydrogen produces fewest ill effects. Considering the reactivity of Hydrogen that seems surprising...( to me anyhow)

Experiments breathing Hydrogen go back years but the technology was put on back burner when its biggest proponent killed himself on a dive in the 50's. There have been cases of Hydrogen narcosis.

This may seem totally OT but I don't think so. I,m wondering what the entire cabinet, HoL, HoC , the lot of them are breathing..think its Nitrous Oxide. They are having a laugh.

 

[oldgroaner]

Even the nominal inert gases produce narcotic effects under pressure. Nitrogen ( yes I know its not one of the inert gases)has to be removed from breathing gases below 130 ft to avoid Nitrogen narcosis. For many years Heliox ( around 5% O2/ 95% Helium, figures vary according to depth of dive)was the first choice for deep dives ( and still is in commercial sense) but even Helium does have problems...( beyond pure asphyxiation with the low %age of O2 needed)
Amazingly Hydrogen is used on extreme dives ( Hydrox, 4% O2 96% Hydrogen) Under extreme pressures it seems Hydrogen produces fewest ill effects. Considering the reactivity of Hydrogen that seems surprising...( to me anyhow)

Experiments breathing Hydrogen go back years but the technology was put on back burner when its biggest proponent killed himself on a dive in the 50's. There have been cases of Hydrogen narcosis.

This may seem totally OT but I don't think so. I,m wondering what the entire cabinet, HoL, HoC , the lot of them are breathing..think its Nitrous Oxide. They are having a laugh.

A rather Hysterical laugh at that my friend! BTW has your appointment fallen foul of the bad weather, or is it still on schedule?

 

[flecc]

I was in the same position and would triple check that range, a 40 kwh Zoe does at most 120 miles in winter

That's what I posted and what the Zoe owner said he got in this forum, 3 miles per kWh, 3 x 40 kWh = 120. He said never less than, you say at most, so presumably some variation in your battery healths or charger peaks or even driving patterns.

Personally this doesn't worry me since winter isn't when I would be doing any longer trips, for me summer's the time for those. As ever it's for each to make their own mind up according to their circumstances. If range/charging stations then are marginal, an e-car isn't suitable.

Next year with some 63 kWh models should liven up the market.
.

 

[Zlatan]

A rather Hysterical laugh at that my friend! BTW has your appointment fallen foul of the bad weather, or is it still on schedule?

Its all delayed a week, but thanks for asking..( next Friday the lights may dim a bit in Rotherham)

 

[oldgroaner]

Its all delayed a week, but thanks for asking..( next Friday the lights may dim a bit in Rotherham)

Do you need a volunteer to throw the switch?

 

[Kudoscycles]

On question time there was the usual....democracy,will of the people,responses.
How is it democratic that we ended up with 30 extreme right wing Tories now steering parliament and steering the country?
What threats do these 'bastards' have over Theresa May?
It has echos of the 1930's when Hitler took over Germany with a relatively small number of Nazis that brainwashed a disillusioned public and ended up seizing power.....the current power grab attempt by the government is a worrying trend. You have to say that the cabinet have done a good job in neutralizing parliament.
KudosDave