Brexit, for once some facts.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Steb, it's a shame that you seem unable to accept the reality of what unplanned large scale immigration can do to a community. It will and does put a strain on just about everything that matters to that community. Just to add to that in many of the towns and villages affected by immigration the settled immigrants also voted for Brexit,

Your arguement is totally flawed I'm afraid. Its been shown over and over again that its the fear of immigration that is the problem, not the immigration itself.
This is back up by the fact that most places that voted leave, have low % of immigrants. The places with high % of immigrants mainly voted remain.

This is one source that looks at the date, there are many. Have a look.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

"But deprivation by itself did not explain the Leave vote, as the results in London show. It was where those socio-economic characteristics occurred in places with a predominantly white British population, that the Leave vote was strongest. So where migrants were not present, it appears they were held partly to blame for the all-too-real, but much deeper-seated, economic difficulties experienced by locals."

 

[Danidl]

Your arguement is totally flawed I'm afraid. Its been shown over and over again that its the fear of immigration that is the problem, not the immigration itself.
This is back up by the fact that most places that voted leave, have low % of immigrants. The places with high % of immigrants mainly voted remain.

This is one source that looks at the date, there are many. Have a look.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

"But deprivation by itself did not explain the Leave vote, as the results in London show. It was where those socio-economic characteristics occurred in places with a predominantly white British population, that the Leave vote was strongest. So where migrants were not present, it appears they were held partly to blame for the all-too-real, but much deeper-seated, economic difficulties experienced by locals."

Immigrants are probably people also, so is it not likely that they would tend to go to places where they might expect a more pleasant experience?. That the highest leaver votes were in places where there were fewer immigrants, is not necessarily that the indiginous population were ignorant of immigrants, as they certainly were, but were predisposed to be hostile to them. Eggs and chickens.
That such areas were also deprived areas might not therefore be surprising!.

 

[oldtom]

Sexual perversion is rife in one sickening form or another among those who express their undying allegiance to the tory party.

Of course, the tory party is the political wing of the British monarchy and aristocracy, aka the establishment or the elite. Due to the preponderance of inbreeding among those of that class, there exists an extraordinarily high
number of imbeciles among their number. Besides those simpletons, paedophilia is rife and every bit as popular as blasting unarmed birds out of the sky with shotguns or torturing foxes to death, using massed ranks of beagles accompanying a drunken mob of hooray Henrys and Henriettas on horseback.

This cretin in the attached infographic is one of those, yet Murdoch's media and the rest of the right-wing rag-meisters have tried to represent him as a Corbynista - the lies never end!



The traits exhibited by these tory toffs are common among all tories and the whole 'Brexit' project is contingent upon the solidarity of the rank and file with these leading lights of tory high society.

Back in the mid-nineteenth century, Victoria, herself no stranger to inbred aristocracy, recognised the high incidence of simpletons on the Isle of Wight during her short breaks down there at Osborne House. Given that the soldiers who guarded HRH and the Prince Albert designed stately pile, the IOW Rifles, were to a man island-bred, she insisted that the military presence on the island be augmented by soldiers from the mainland, her aim being that they should befriend the local womenfolk when off-duty and impregnate them to broaden the gene pool on the island.

Anyone familiar with royal lineage will understand that, coming from her, that was rich indeed!

For those unaware, the locals back then were appended the moniker, 'caulkhead' or as some have it, 'corkhead' on account of the work many were involved in, waterproofing the planks of ships' hulls with caulk wadding sealed with tar. That led to mainland sailing types referring to IOW natives as caulkheads or corkheads, the suggestion being that they were all thick.

Some have it that there were fumes involved that really did rot the brains and many of those plying that trade were rather of the, 'There's a light in the window but there's no-one at home' type. I couldn't possibly verify that as I wasn't around at the time.....'flecc' might remember it though?

I just though all you imbecilic lovely tory supporters might like to know you are not alone.....indeed, there is almost certainly someone, perhaps several others, who actually look just like you in towns elsewhere around the country. It's all in the breeding!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Steb, it's a shame that you seem unable to accept the reality of what unplanned large scale immigration can do to a community. It will and does put a strain on just about everything that matters to that community. Just to add to that in many of the towns and villages affected by immigration the settled immigrants also voted for Brexit, because, they too, understood the issues. You are wrong to accuse us of being racist, xenophobic, self-centered and whatever else you choose to throw our way. The UK has always been a welcoming country and is probably one of the most integrated places you could ever go to - not perfect and we do have our share of bigots but you do yourself no favours, on here or anywhere else to even suggest that we are about to change. OG might agree with you but I certainly don't.

You really don't understand anything about inward migration, do you? I'm not going to recite history to you as you are quite capable of researching matters for yourself but immigration has always played a big part of the creation of this united kingdom. We are mostly descended of non-native peoples who arrived here from elsewhere or came and conquered the local tribes then decided to stay.

Government-inspired propaganda, disseminated via their media wing has created this myth about immigrants and is largely responsible for the racist views held by so many, particularly those in areas only sparsely populated by incomers.

One of the joys for me in the time I spend in my UK home is visiting London, one of the great cities of the world. The mix of different colours and different tongues is fascinating and I'm not talking about tourists - these are people who live and work in the capital, many born here too of immigrant parents.

Those of us who are lucky enough to enjoy the company of those of a different heritage and eat their food, listen to their stories and wonder at their fortitude, facing up to the almost daily hostility some of them receive from ignorant locals feel blessed to have that privilege.

The reality of immigrant peoples is entirely different from the scandalous allegations made by the modern-day Oswald Mosley, the despicable Nigel Farage and his acolytes. Clearly, you seem to have issues with the whole matter of immigration and immigrants as you seem unable to grasp what native Londoners have come to learn through centuries of inward migration.

The UK is a better place because of our immigrant population.

Tom

 

[flecc]

One of the joys for me in the time I spend in my UK home is visiting London, one of the great cities of the world. The mix of different colours and different tongues is fascinating and I'm not talking about tourists - these are people who live and work in the capital, many born here too of immigrant parents.

Something that gives me pleasure is that as a white British born person, I'm one of a minority in London, just like all the others. None of us is dominant and most of us get on well with each other since we are all Londoners, regardless of colour, race, creed, sexual orientation or how short or long a time we've been here. It's just good to know and live with them all.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

The reality of immigrant peoples is entirely different from the scandalous allegations made by the modern-day Oswald Mosley, the despicable Nigel Farage and his acolytes.

Tom

?

 

[Zlatan]

A new low has been reached on here. It really has got quite barmy...

The real measure of integration is when the immigrants you all ( mostly) talk about are not viewed , looked on or recorded as immigrants. As Tom and co point out UK is a mongrel race and better for it. There is no such thing as English, its you lot making the distinctions.
As for Tom's view of tories. Absolute lunacy packed full of the generalisations he on the one hand hates, yet on the other proliferates.
So now we know, all Tories are scum sexual deviants because of inbreeding, all leavers are idiotic racists . What a sad world some of you inhabit. Grow up.
For what its worth I think Toms latest outburst is way beyond any levels of decency , extremely inflammatory and doesn't belong on a " pedelec" forum, I have hit report button. Futile I know but he is now on border of inciting violence.
I,m following Tillson and Peterl. A shame.
Must dash , meeting Spanish friends for breakfast, taking my Jamaican wife. What a funny life I lead for a racist.

 

[Woosh]

The real measure of integration is when the immigrants you all ( mostly) talk about are not viewed , looked on or recorded as immigrants. As Tom and co point out UK is a mongrel race and better for it. There is no such thing as English, its you lot making the distinctions.
As for Tom's view of tories. Absolute lunacy packed full of the generalisations he on the one hand hates, yet on the other proliferates.
So now we know, all Tories are scum sexual deviants because of inbreeding, all leavers are idiotic racists . What a sad world some of you inhabit.

Well said, zlatan.

 

[oldgroaner]

I,m following Tillson and Peterl. A shame.
Must dash , meeting Spanish friends for breakfast, taking my Jamaican wife. What a funny life I lead for a racist.

What? going again? you beat even Lord Nigel for resignations!
What a funny life you lead alright, you attack the EU and everyone associated with it, and see no irony in complaining when others attack your "Heroes"
And regard criticism of yourself as "insulting" even as you heap it on others.
AS to Tom's assertions about the Conservatives, alas much of what he says is true, and that is what is really appalling.
You voted for Brexit as you saw personal advantage for you, in times of financial uncertanly there are always opportunities for speculators to make a killing aren't they? you admitted as much, and really have no interest in the welfare of the polulation here while you spend your time in the very EU you denigrate at every opportunity.
Not a racist certainly, undoubtedly, but cetainly a gambler willing to bet the future of the nation on an outside bet because you don't think you can lose by it, and don't care if everyone else does.
Socially a bit of a misfit in the modern world, just holding back progress.
Basically your imperative is the same as that of any Tory, to live off society, and give as little back as possible, and never mind the social cost.
That isn't insulting, just a statement of fact, it's the way this country operates.

 

[oldtom]

I think you pinched that line - off me!

Fleetwood Mac might have something to say about that!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Personally, I would go for the one in - one out solution and send a few of our unemployable's off to pastures new. I'm sure, with Tom's help, I could write a book/article that would convince them of the opportunities awaiting them at the other end.

As for acquiring Tom's help, you have more chance of plaiting fog! In your little bubble, the opportunities awaiting the people you describe would be found just beyond the gates with the inscription above which turned out to be a lie - no surprise there!



That is the Dachau sign, rather than the one at Auschwitz.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Not a racist certainly, undoubtedly, but cetainly a gambler willing to bet the future of the nation on an outside bet because you don't think you can lose by it, and don't care if everyone else does.

On the face of it, one might imagine that because a white person marries a Jamaican, it must follow that that person cannot be a racist.

First, I have met and worked beside white Jamaicans who considered themselves very British indeed, some having ancestry going back to the Doomsday book.

Secondly, colour prejudice and racism are not exactly the same thing. Eastern Europeans are mainly white people but are hated by sections of British people because they are foreign. That is no more and no less than straightforward racism.

In simple terms, racism manifests itself in a variety of ways but the common thread in all forms of it concerns a hatred of other people of non-British heritage, at least as far as the UK is concerned.

Anyway, a troll-free forum will make a pleasant change..... I never knew trolls took wives - I learn something new every day!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

This helps describe the situation in the British economy under the ruling Plutocracy/Oligarchy just as much as in the USA:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=700149600175609

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

On the face of it, one might imagine that because a white person marries a Jamaican, it must follow that that person cannot be a racist.

First, I have met and worked beside white Jamaicans who considered themselves very British indeed, some having ancestry going back to the Doomsday book.

Secondly, colour prejudice and racism are not exactly the same thing. Eastern Europeans are mainly white people but are hated by sections of British people because they are foreign. That is no more and no less than straightforward racism.

In simple terms, racism manifests itself in a variety of ways but the common thread in all forms of it concerns a hatred of other people of non-British heritage, at least as far as the UK is concerned.

Anyway, a troll-free forum will make a pleasant change..... I never knew trolls took wives - I learn something new every day!

Tom

Just to put it straight. I,m not white but who is differentiating...again.

Well said, zlatan.

Thanks Woosh.

 

[oldtom]

Just to put it straight. I,m not white but who is differentiating...again.

Why did you find the need to describe your wife's nationality so:

Must dash , meeting Spanish friends for breakfast, taking my Jamaican wife. What a funny life I lead for a racist.

You did that deliberately to draw a response, fully aware of the perceptions of most forum readers. Your colour, like that of your wife, is of no concern to me though it may be to others.

Where you get the notion that I am somehow differentiating is lost on me but bon voyage - I shan't miss you.....well, not any more than any other internet troll, regardless of skin colour!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

On the face of it, one might imagine that because a white person marries a Jamaican, it must follow that that person cannot be a racist.

First, I have met and worked beside white Jamaicans who considered themselves very British indeed, some having ancestry going back to the Doomsday book.

Secondly, colour prejudice and racism are not exactly the same thing. Eastern Europeans are mainly white people but are hated by sections of British people because they are foreign. That is no more and no less than straightforward racism.

In simple terms, racism manifests itself in a variety of ways but the common thread in all forms of it concerns a hatred of other people of non-British heritage, at least as far as the UK is concerned.

Anyway, a troll-free forum will make a pleasant change..... I never knew trolls took wives - I learn something new every day!

Tom

.. of course they do where else would baby trolls come from

 

[oldgroaner]

.. of course they do where else would baby trolls come from

Er.....good question........ my guess would be Conservative central office?

 

[oldgroaner]

Why did you find the need to describe your wife's nationality so:



You did that deliberately to draw a response, fully aware of the perceptions of most forum readers. Your colour, like that of your wife, is of no concern to me though it may be to others.

Where you get the notion that I am somehow differentiating is lost on me but bon voyage - I shan't miss you.....well, not any more than any other internet troll, regardless of skin colour!

Tom

I for one shall miss him, he is fun and does come out with some amazing inverted logic, and circular arguments he can lose against himself, a remarkable skill when you think about it, and anyway, he won't leave us for long, will he?
Never does....as soon as the battery runs down on his sea scooter, he'll be back.

 

[flecc]

I for one shall miss him, he is fun and does come out with some amazing inverted logic, and circular arguments he can lose against himself

Indeed, some of his irrational conclusions have astonished me. It's almost as if his English comes from a dictionary of entirely different and flexible meanings.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Indeed, some of his irrational conclusions have astonished me. It's almost as if his English comes from a dictionary of entirely different and flexible meanings.
.

Rather in the nature of a Conservative Party Manifesto