Brexit, for once some facts.

[PeterL]

All getting a bit heavy on here. Perhaps this will cheer some of you...

TRANSPORT

Electric bikes may get subsidy to boost cycling

https://digitaledition.telegraph.co.uk/editions/edition_SGFrL_2017-10-21/data/395914/index.html?share=1&WT.mc_id=tmgapp_inar_share&utm_source=tmgapp&utm_medium=inar&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=tmgapp_inar_share&Expires=1510959600&Signature=f~4OG3om8QmRccimNF15qbTD6bViYjC5afJNe6Cj10o7VODH-M~hf3v1aITtQX1XyURCGNvk2GRNynmvg176xlzPtdeNh66cSnVZ1o0VsjYdsxVyVABbGc6dYuY7W0i0qIVFNPlxpNr2kLhtgJpyD~RGHVGXvAma5U2ZqlmtmF8OkjhJGsdTLaR~ifwyt4LMn1OmDeIllYPVvchbnMo5S74Atnro~u331ylslpnP9F8L4zBHOoMowPmjmaMgQUUwhH3NiS0pZP~7aDLbEj8YK2UwBnDQC8vKH~Jw5PejTWICIL-oqGtXi02qcI7uCIhGeu0h0PuH4T~JMhHvel5l-A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLCEPDGCTPVKXNOA

 

[PeterL]

We are a nation of importers.
The fact inflation is rising faster than wages and we already have pretty much full employment does somewhat suggest that even if it was a plan, it wasn't a sensible one. We hadn't had another black wednesday., that I'm aware of.. Brexit is supposed to be a positive isn't it? Or so you keep telling us, so why the need to collapse the currency, if its all going to be milk and honey?
Do you see my confusion

If you continue to wear blinkers , then yes, I can understand the confusion. First we are not just a nation of importers and as your graphs show (#21976KTM) there's not a lot of difference between exports and imports. Ideally, we should be exporting more than we import and that is where Brexit comes in. I believe that is the only way we ever achieve that situation. Final point, Brexit negotiations are a period of unknowns and therefore there is turbulence on the currency markets.

 

[PeterL]

Because I'll be happy to admit I was wrong if it does turn out better.

Some of us will be fine dining.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Bet she can find loads, you,ve exhibited a few on here tonight. The 16 million racists for a start is pathetic. Its not worth responding to. BFN.

You clearly can't read. I even agreed with you that if the 15 million who got that letter took on board its comments and found good reason to leave. 15 million wasn't going to win the referendum. There are a % of the people that voted leave that are racist, you can't argue with that, because I'm not putting a number on it.

 

[PeterL]

I'm sure my wife could find more than one reason to leave me. But she doesn't leave because there are many reasons to stay. .

Which way do you think it pans out then? I suspect more reasons to leave, just easier to stay, less hassle - who knows what the guy next door would be like to live with? On the other hand, if she likes a bit of rough then the Brexiter might just sway the balance?

 

[PeterL]

Are you sure you're not a writer? That little story is make-believe and I think you just made it up.

Tom

You're encouraging me now.

 

[flecc]

Philip Hammond wanted 4 years instead of two.
My guess we'll have completed half in the two years then either try that or ask for 2 more years transitioning.

Yes, four years would have been much more realistic. Setting up multiple trade agreements has proved to be very time consuming, no matter who between, and that's never more true than when it's with the EU.
.

 

[Zlatan]

You clearly can't read. I even agreed with you that if the 15 million who got that letter took on board its comments and found good reason to leave. 15 million wasn't going to win the referendum. There are a % of the people that voted leave that are racist, you can't argue with that, because I'm not putting a number on it.

There are a number who voted remain also recist, probably a few criminals, muggers and every other group.
I wont bother commenting about my lack of reading skills, but perhaps you should try being rather more objective than simply regurgitating ridiculous links.

 

[PeterL]

Conservative
A person who knows the cost of everything
And the Value of Nothing.

No you have that wrong he was referring to someone more like you? I've never heard you, or Tom come to that, refer to a Tory as a Cynic.

 

[flecc]

There are a number who voted remain also racist,

But that's very much less likely, since the Remainers expressed a desire to stay with the other 27 peoples of the EU and also gladly accept their free movement anywhere into the UK, even as their neighbours.

The Leavers were either deliberately or accidentally expressing the opposite desires, either way that's still racism as defined by Lord Justice Scarman. i.e. Deliberate or institutional.
.

 

[Zlatan]

But that's very much less likely, since the Remainers expressed a desire to stay with the other 27 peoples of the EU and also gladly accept their free movement anywhere into the UK, even as their neighbours.

The Leavers were either deliberately or accidentally expressing the opposite desires, either way that's still racism as defined by Lord Justice Scarman. i.e. Deliberate or institutional.
.

So all the rhetoric around leavers being racist is based, in your words, on that scenario being " more likely" . You started this thread on claim of facts flecc.
Its probably more likely leavers have blue eyes...bur so what..

 

[Steb]

So all the rhetoric around leavers being racist is based, in your words, on that scenario being " more likely" . You started this thread on claim of facts flecc.
Its probably more likely leavers have blue eyes...bur so what..

This whitewashing of the brexit campaign, pun intended and made nice and explicit for the benefit of brexiters challenged levels of intuitive nouse, is ironic indeed. Where were you when Nige posture in front of posters filled with streams of migrants or anyone interviewed made it blatantly clear it was about the fabricated fake news that immigrants took houses, school places, health care etc?

 

[PeterL]

This whitewashing of the brexit campaign, pun intended and made nice and explicit for the benefit of brexiters challenged levels of intuitive nouse, is ironic indeed. Where were you when Nige posture in front of posters filled with streams of migrants or anyone interviewed made it blatantly clear it was about the fabricated fake news that immigrants took houses, school places, health care etc?

It might not have been the wisest of campaigns but for you to say/imply that the flow of immigrants didn't need housing, school places etc and therefore had no impact on the communities they joined is plainly wrong. The truth is that for some, dare I say, less fortunate, the impact of immigration was very real and it did affect their lives. That is why we need controlled immigration policies to suit our needs and infrastructure?

 

[Steb]

It might not have been the wisest of campaigns but for you to say/imply that the flow of immigrants didn't need housing, school places etc and therefore had no impact on the communities they joined is plainly wrong. The truth is that for some, dare I say, less fortunate, the impact of immigration was very real and it did affect their lives. That is why we need controlled immigration policies to suit?

Stating the obvious, but:immigrants to the UK contribute more in taxes than the services they consume. However, I am grateful to you for illustrating my point by, as a brexiters, again parading that old xenophobic lie. Take away the immigrants and the hard up in the UK would loose a significant number of their nurses, doctors, children's teachers, and be much worse off

 

[PeterL]

So all the rhetoric around leavers being racist is based, in your words, on that scenario being " more likely" . You started this thread on claim of facts flecc.
Its probably more likely leavers have blue eyes...bur so what..

I do, have blue eyes.

 

[PeterL]

Stating the obvious, but:immigrants to the UK contribute more in taxes than the services they consume. However, I am grateful to you for illustrating my point by, as a brexiters, again parading that old xenophobic lie. Take away the immigrants and the hard up in the UK would loose a significant number of their nurses, doctors, children's teachers, and be much worse off

I think I said "That is why we need controlled immigration policies to suit?" No one, certainly not me, said that we shouldn't have immigration. Personally, I would go for the one in - one out solution and send a few of our unemployable's off to pastures new. I'm sure, with Tom's help, I could write a book/article that would convince them of the opportunities awaiting them at the other end.

 

[flecc]

So all the rhetoric around leavers being racist is based, in your words, on that scenario being " more likely" . You started this thread on claim of facts flecc.

And my answer was purely factual, demonstrating how all those who voted Leave were expressing some degree of racism. From the totality of the bigot's desire for separation to the accidental institutional racism of the others expressing a preference for their own people over others, whether socially or economically.

Its probably more likely leavers have blue eyes...but so what..

No, that is not probable, only possible.
.

 

[Steb]

I think I said "That is why we need controlled immigration policies to suit?" No one, certainly not me, said that we shouldn't have immigration. Personally, I would go for the one in - one out solution and send a few of our unemployable's off to pastures new. I'm sure, with Tom's help, I could write a book/article that would convince them of the opportunities awaiting them at the other end.

speaking as a skilled immigrant, who know many other skilled immigrants, well - I would point out that choosing to migrate is also (for most mainly) a moral, existential decision. Would I have migrated to an inward looking, racist uk under the leadership of a xenophobic toad like farage who is happy to let refugees drown. no, neither would many I know. there are other places to go. what I would point out to any English citizen is that a large reason why migrants come here is (soon perhaps was) its liberal tradition, which translates (soon translated) into a vibrant cosmopolitan culture. You shouldn't be looking at the value of the pound to determine the damage brexit is doint, you should interview a few non-british and ask them what they think about the new self-centred, inward looking, xenophobic culture that is taking hold here. that's the real damage.

 

[PeterL]

speaking as a skilled immigrant, who know many other skilled immigrants, well - I would point out that choosing to migrate is also (for most mainly) a moral, existential decision. Would I have migrated to an inward looking, racist uk under the leadership of a xenophobic toad like farage who is happy to let refugees drown. no, neither would many I know. there are other places to go. what I would point out to any English citizen is that a large reason why migrants come here is (soon perhaps was) its liberal tradition, which translates (soon translated) into a vibrant cosmopolitan culture. You shouldn't be looking at the value of the pound to determine the damage brexit is doint, you should interview a few non-british and ask them what they think about the new self-centred, inward looking, xenophobic culture that is taking hold here. that's the real damage.

Steb, it's a shame that you seem unable to accept the reality of what unplanned large scale immigration can do to a community. It will and does put a strain on just about everything that matters to that community. Just to add to that in many of the towns and villages affected by immigration the settled immigrants also voted for Brexit, because, they too, understood the issues. You are wrong to accuse us of being racist, xenophobic, self-centered and whatever else you choose to throw our way. The UK has always been a welcoming country and is probably one of the most integrated places you could ever go to - not perfect and we do have our share of bigots but you do yourself no favours, on here or anywhere else to even suggest that we are about to change. OG might agree with you but I certainly don't.

 

[PeterL]

And my answer was purely factual, demonstrating how all those who voted Leave were expressing some degree of racism. From the totality of the bigot's desire for separation to the accidental institutional racism of the others expressing a preference for their own people over others, whether socially or economically.
.

That certainly goes way beyond the pale - you should be ashamed of yourself.