Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

the strength of the Euro is exactly what the Southern Eurozone countries cannot afford, they need a weak Euro to create more jobs.
Sooner or later, one of the Southern countries will have to leave the Euro or endures very high unemployment rate. That may eventually lead to a smaller Eurozone core. The Eurozone will be the pillar of the US of E if the EU ever becomes a superstate. Nobody can predict the future of the EU when the first country (which may be Greece or Italy) decides to go back to their own currency.
As long as we keep a flexible economy, we'll trade successfully with the EU in whichever form.

And return to being a backward country where the people live under a regime that regards them as nothing more than worker drones to be used and discarded to make profits for others.
Any fool can run a slave economy to make a profit, but that isn't progress and is doomed to failure, already mismanagement and exploitation drove the Public to vote for Brexit in the Referendum.
The notion that had been sold to them was that the EU was the source of their woes, when they realise it wasn't, a referendum is unlikely to pacify them again.

 

[flecc]

the strength of the Euro is exactly what the Southern Eurozone countries cannot afford, they need a weak Euro to create more jobs.
Sooner or later, one of the Southern countries will have to leave the Euro or endures ever higher unemployment rate. That may eventually lead to a smaller Eurozone core. The Eurozone will be the pillar of the US of E if the EU ever becomes a superstate.

I agree and have posted exactly the same earlier in this thread. But it's not only a euro issue or even a euro issue, it's more an issue of the irresponsibility and corruuption of the weaker countries. Greece and Ireland spent recklessly and unsuitably often on easily borrowed money and suffered from that. That suffering would have occurred with any currency given the same behaviour. Other issues like a failure to collect taxes also play a large part.

If Greece for example had not borrowed huge sums to buy excessive and unsuitable defence force equipment, did not maintain far larger armed forces than necessary, had collected taxes due, their position now would have been radically different. They would be a financially healthy member of the EU, enjoying a strong future. They own much of the world's shipping industry which earns them enough to ensure their future if they bother to tax it properly.
.
.

 

[Woosh]

And return to being a backward country where the people live under a regime that regards them as nothing more than worker drones to be used and discarded to make profits for others.
Any fool can run a slave economy to make a profit, but that isn't progress and is doomed to failure, already mismanagement and exploitation drove the Public to vote for Brexit in the Referendum.
The notion that had been sold to them was that the EU was the source of their woes, when they realise it wasn't, a referendum is unlikely to pacify them again.

that's an unlikely scenario. If Greece for example comes out of the Euro, Greece can devalue the Drachma to attract fresh FDI, increase public investment which will employ people and pay taxes. Over a medium term, the situation will improve sufficiently to return to the SGP like any good member.
I find myself much in agreement with Mr Varoufakis.

 

[PeterL]

Actually Grandfather came back disillusioned after losing all his friends at the Battle of "Oppy Wood" in the First World War, Father went through Dunkirk and fought at Alamein and came back in the remnants of 12 out of 2000 to find his younger Brother had made it back home and lasted Four Hours before dying of his wounds escaping from a Prisoner of War camp..
It actually records that on his Army Tombstone

As Grandfather said to Father when he volunteered at the start of the Second World war, even though he was 43 years old, you're a fool son, there's no joy in it, you'll live like a dog and die like a rat. Father didn't but his younger Brother did.
And for what?

I can relate to that and indeed agree, no way would I advocate war, certainly not on the scale of those two world wars. However, the case for being prepared for one is another story. One for Tom here I'm sure. Should there be another world war that required mass conscription - who do you think does the training and who is it goes to war? Not the reason I joined up, I needed some quality education and training and like to think that's exactly what I received.

 

[oldgroaner]

that's an unlikely scenario. If Greece for example comes out of the Euro, Greece can devalue the Drachma to attract fresh FDI, increase public investment which will employ people and pay taxes. Over a medium term, the situation will improve sufficiently to return to the SGP like any good member.
I find myself much in agreement with Mr Varoufakis.

Er, wasn't your response meant for flecc?

 

[PeterL]

If Greece for example had not borrowed huge sums to buy excessive and unsuitable defence force equipment, did not maintain far larger armed forces than necessary,
.

Remind me, who did they buy that equipment from and who lent them the money?

 

[oldgroaner]

I can relate to that and indeed agree, no way would I advocate war, certainly not on the scale of those two world wars. However, the case for being prepared for one is another story. One for Tom here I'm sure. Should there be another world war that required mass conscription - who do you think does the training and who is it goes to war? Not the reason I joined up, I needed some quality education and training and like to think that's exactly what I received.

The regulars do the training and the Territorials do the fighting of course, the problem from the family point of view was that so many were squandered on "Brush" wars about as far away from the worthy cause of Defence of the Realm as can be possible imagined.
I am talking back over a period of 250 plus years here, and family members in Service were scattered all around the globe.
I suspect it was a natural career choice after the Border Rieving days of the Bell clan had become shall we say less attractive.

 

[Danidl]

I agree and have posted exactly the same earlier in this thread. But it's not only a euro issue or even a euro issue, it's more an issue of the irresponsibility and corruuption of the weaker countries. Greece and Ireland spent recklessly and unsuitably often on easily borrowed money and suffered from that. That suffering would have occurred with any currency given the same behaviour. Other issues like a failure to collect taxes also play a large part.

If Greece for example had not borrowed huge sums to buy excessive and unsuitable defence force equipment, did not maintain far larger armed forces than necessary, had collected taxes due, their position now would have been radically different. They would be a financially healthy member of the EU, enjoying a strong future. They own much of the world's shipping industry which earns them enough to ensure their future if they bother to tax it properly.
Just
.
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Just a point of clarification, failure to collect taxes was not a problem in ireland, failure to control reckless lending was the problem. The Irish Revenue then and now is very efficient. The rate of growth was such that the amounts collected in revenue exceeded predictions for a number of years particularly in property related taxes. Once the property boom stopped, and it was a very sudden stop, there were few other taxes available

 

[PeterL]

The regulars do the training and the Territorials do the fighting of course, the problem from the family point of view was that so many were squandered on "Brush" wars about as far away from the worthy cause of Defence of the Realm as can be possible imagined.
I am talking back over a period of 250 plus years here, and family members in Service were scattered all around the globe.
I suspect it was a natural career choice after the Border Rieving days of the Bell clan had become shall we say less attractive.

We were very busy in those days both gaining and indeed losing an Empire and I can certainly understand the concept of the ruling classes. Different in my days though and I did spend a few years with the Household Cavalry - we got on well, very well, I enjoyed every minute of it.

 

[oldtom]

I was quoting directly from this report

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/uk...o-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year/022040

which was in the previous post, which I was responding to. Had you read it you would have realised rather than make a fool (old) of yourself!

Okay, that's not the first time your poor basic grammar has flummoxed me. In post #20982, I drew attention to how your lazy written form of vernacular was difficult to understand and as I'm guilty of skim-reading posts in a fast-moving thread, I failed to grasp that you were actually referring to Carlton Reid's book. That, in turn explains why I imagined that you might well be the said Carlton Reid, (maybe a nom de plume?).

'Send three and fourpence - we're gong to a dance!'

Tom

 

[oldtom]

I needed some quality education and training and like to think that's exactly what I received.

I reckon you're entitled to compensation!

Tom

 

[flecc]

Remind me, who did they buy that equipment from and who lent them the money?

Diversion again and irrelevant to the point made about irresponsible spending. It's still irresponsible no matter where the money came from or where it's spent.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Sums it up doesn't it?

 

[flecc]

Just a point of clarification, failure to collect taxes was not a problem in ireland,

Agreed, and I didn't say it did, just referring to it as another issue in reference to some countries. I've closely followed the reasons for the failures of all the weaker EU countries and know the euro plays a miniscule part in their problems and not the major part some seem to believe. The successful euro countries prove that.

Broadly speaking the failing EU countries only suffer from self inflicted problems. Any slight effect on their failings due to the EU is more than compensated for by the advantages of being in the union.
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[oldgroaner]

Sums it up doesn't it?

8: And there will be FREE BEER Tomorrow!

 

[Woosh]

Er, wasn't your response meant for flecc?

No, it was in reply to your view that leaving the Euro means returning to being a backward country. If Greece or Italy or Spain leaves the Euro, they are still very much a member of the EU27. They won't become a backward country because they leave the Euro. They will still be bound by the Stability and Growth Pact. However, they can devalue in the short term like we did the day after EURef. We did it to protect jobs in this country. If we were in the Eurozone, that option would not be available and the effect of brexit vote would be a nuclear bomb economically speaking.

And return to being a backward country where the people live under a regime that regards them as nothing more than worker drones to be used and discarded to make profits for others.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, it was in reply to your view that leaving the Euro means returning to being a backward country. If Greece or Italy or Spain leaves the Euro, they are still very much a member of the EU27. They won't become a backward country because they leave the Euro. They will still be bound by the Stability and Growth Pact. However, they can devalue in the short term like we did the day after EURef. We did it to protect jobs in this country. If we were in the Eurozone, that option would not be available and the effect of brexit vote would be a nuclear bomb economically speaking.

Actually I was referring to leaving the EU, obviously I didn't make that clear enough, the Euro is of far less importance than that

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

However, they can devalue in the short term like we did the day after EURef. We did it to protect jobs in this country.

Seriously??? You're seriously suggesting the devaluation of the £ after the EURef was a decision taken to protect job? Seriously??

In a country that's a net importer of stuff we need, and a net exporter of primarily services.

a) how the hell do you think the devaluation was a policy that was aimed for, and

b) how does it protect jobs?? We don't have an employment problem, it why we have to go looking for migrants to fill positions.

 

[PeterL]

I reckon you're entitled to compensation!

Tom

Could always do a Trump and challenge you to an IQ Test?

 

[Woosh]

Seriously??? You're seriously suggesting the devaluation of the £ after the EURef was a decision taken to protect job? Seriously??

yes. The BoE planned it.
That's why the London stock market did not crash.
If we were in the Eurozone, the Euro could not be devalued, so the stock market would have taken 20% hit instead of the Pound. That would have triggered programmed selling with dire consequences for our economy.