Agree - where has money from the investment of shares gone? I bet they couldn't sell them and get a decent return on their money? Don't get me wrong here, I fully understand why but it still amounts to a subsidy in the eyes of a competitor.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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that may be so, and it's not a subsidy because the government is a shareholder, like it is in RBS.
The Quebec government is free to sell its shares in Bombardier later and make a profit.
This is why JC wants to be out of the single market so he can re-nationalize the rail, utilities and cancel PFIs with new government bonds.
I am quite happy to buy bonds in these things with my pension.
Interesting, to a point correct as this is the basic way that business works. I buy shares in Company A because I believe that so doing I will make a profit. I doubt I would invest in a failing business, just a bit too risky for me and most other people unless they see an opportunity to asset-strip. Governments see things differently: 10,000 or so workers being put out of work is, for them, very serious and that's quite clearly a bail-out, a bung or whatever else you care to call it? Like I say, totally understandable, but, unlikely to be seen as fair by a competitor in that field?
You mentioned RBS and as I recall the Government want out and indeed have been told to get out, hopefully, without losing too much of our money. I don't see anywhere the Canadian Government getting out of the Bombardier shareholding?
Nationalised industries and Free Markets must make for strange bed-fellows no matter what spin JC puts on it.
But unfair of Boeing to directly connect that to a specific airliner model. The Canadian government invested in the Bombardier company and they are a major world producer of all forms of rail systems, as well a large range of various size aeroplanes.
Any indirect subsidy effect on just one airliner model could be miniscule or even non-existent.
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Be interesting what Trump will do about Comac , the Shanghai aircraft company making a Boeing 737 competitor. The Chinese plane will have all GE engines and avionics. In the longer term with Mays wish for a free market,the Chinese plane would be a very serious competitor to the Airbus A320. O'Leary,the biggest Boeing customer is said to be very interested in the Comac.
The French Aibus inside the EU and Brits Airbus outside the EU would be interesting to their approach to Comac,re tariffs,Ryanair being an EU customer.
KudosDave
Yes, it will be interesting to watch. Boeing seem to be preparing to compete since they currently list their plane as the New 737, though how much is new I've no idea since I haven't investigated. Externally it looks unchanged, even the somewhat old fashioned blunt fronted cockpit screen appearance retained.
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The Boeing 737 max has 10 more seats and much more fuel efficient.
I think Ryanair already are using the new plane.
I wonder what O'Leary is up to with all these cancellations. It can only be about money,for that is all he is interested in.
He criticises his pilots for not being more flexible to keep the routes flying...that is absolute rubbish , many of his pilots especially captains haven't had holidays for months,they work on their off days, work 50 hour weeks,sometimes 6 sector days starting at 4am and finishing at 6 pm,they only get paid when the plane is flying...in aviation terms block to block.
So it's not about the pilots O'Leary is up to something..,if you are short of pilots why would you have a cheap flight sale.
Maybe some of the routes are uneconomic to fly and the pilots are just an excuse.
KudosDave
It certainly will be interesting. All the more so given that these planes are generally sold with a complete cradle to grave (not sure that is PC) financial model. Just to think of the logistics required to make such an operation work across the world makes my eyes water - must take a whole pile of money.
Indeed, we can only guess without insider information, but that's true of Boeing as well. Unless they have specific information of cost to sale price ratios for the C class airliner they are just taking a punt on getting away with their complaint.
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Problem is Airbus isn't French or British or German or Spanish or ... it is an EU company. Toulouse gets all the glam shots because they do the assembly but there are many nationalities in that factory and English and French are the official spoken languages.
Coming back to the thread heading. We might as well pull Davis and his team back from Brussels. The longer the negotiations the worse appears the possible deal...on this I am agreed with May.... no deal is better than a bad deal.
Do nothing and just carry on as normal. The EU cannot build customs posts any quicker than we can, especially in Ireland.
If there is a logjam at Dover-Calais,
So be it. BMW will soon work out a way of keeping Coventry rolling. German cars will be stockpiled waiting for WTO clearance.
The mess will be such a catastrophe that the EU will be pressured to do something and quick.
Maybe this is the UK governments master plan, appear incompetent and let the EU sort out the mess...we are doing a good job of acting incompetent,but is it acting?
KudosDave
Do nothing and just carry on as normal. The EU cannot build customs posts any quicker than we can, especially in Ireland.
If there is a logjam at Dover-Calais,
So be it. BMW will soon work out a way of keeping Coventry rolling. German cars will be stockpiled waiting for WTO clearance.
The mess will be such a catastrophe that the EU will be pressured to do something and quick.
Maybe this is the UK governments master plan, appear incompetent and let the EU sort out the mess...we are doing a good job of acting incompetent,but is it acting?
KudosDave
I thought DD is doing OK and this round of negotiation is going well.
Don't forget, the tories have to negotiate within their own party first before DD could venture out of his shell.
As far as border posts in NI, I don't think it's going to happen. First, we'll have a transition period, then a soft brexit or associate EU membership.
Next step, the bill.
I am of the thought that we should pay them up to March 2019,add the debts we have to pay,then discount those they owe us, then leave.
The EU will have to get something organised and quick or Europe will fall apart.
The solution even at that stage we stay in on similar terms to current.
KudosDave
The EU will have to get something organised and quick or Europe will fall apart.
The solution even at that stage we stay in on similar terms to current.
KudosDave
Sorry what's going well. DD keeps telling us talks are constructive but doesn't say why they are constructive.
Walk away from a deal, then you find out how keen the other side are to do a deal.
KudosDave
they are constructive because the tories have given up having cake and eating it. We always know that's a non-starter position. The proper negotiation can only commence when we know what the end game is. Therefore, we have to choose between hard and soft, then go from there.
Paying the EU ransom is the least of our worries..
The EU needs our money but we need to protect FDIs more. About half of the FDI into the EU goes to the UK.
Isn't it all going splendidly? lets recap where we are.
Negotiations are not going well.
The chances of a "Good"deal as against a "Bad" deal matter little or nothing in the long term.
We will be out and then some sort of fudge will keep trade going slower but nevertheless moving.
The Public will be poorer and their rights blown out of the water.
There may be either a Conservative Government that will annoy the voters to hell because they don't get the promised golden age they are expecting.
Alternatively there will be a Labour Government that makes the public as happy as one of Mao or Stalin's seven year plans did.
The NHS will not receive either the money or the staffing it requires.
Basically unless Brexit is cancelled, once the street parties and flag waving are over, look for a rerun of the 1930 all over again.
And in the short to mid term, trouble on the streets.
Speculating over what the EU will do is irrelevent, no longer any of our business, and you can kiss any trade deals with the USA goodbye.
The 50% of the shares that are Foreign owned may either go cheaply to the Chinese, (plus the other 50%) or become worth as much as Rolls Royce shares were when at the bottom
Negotiations are not going well.
The chances of a "Good"deal as against a "Bad" deal matter little or nothing in the long term.
We will be out and then some sort of fudge will keep trade going slower but nevertheless moving.
The Public will be poorer and their rights blown out of the water.
There may be either a Conservative Government that will annoy the voters to hell because they don't get the promised golden age they are expecting.
Alternatively there will be a Labour Government that makes the public as happy as one of Mao or Stalin's seven year plans did.
The NHS will not receive either the money or the staffing it requires.
Basically unless Brexit is cancelled, once the street parties and flag waving are over, look for a rerun of the 1930 all over again.
And in the short to mid term, trouble on the streets.
Speculating over what the EU will do is irrelevent, no longer any of our business, and you can kiss any trade deals with the USA goodbye.
The 50% of the shares that are Foreign owned may either go cheaply to the Chinese, (plus the other 50%) or become worth as much as Rolls Royce shares were when at the bottom
Yep,Farage as our Brexit negotiator. Send Boris off to North Korea and Rees-Mogg off to Iran and all our troubles will be over................bang!!!!!!
KudosDave
I can help with that. The
A fuller description becomes available to anyone wishing to avail themselves of the current list of Quangos and their important function in the
There are many good reasons as to why these quangos provide good value for money; for example, only about 650 seats are available in the H of Commons and a little over 800 in the Lords. The BBC and Mr Murdoch's organisation can only employ so many commentators, anchormen, reporters, editors and deputy editors, so now that the boards of all the various High St charity chains are awash with well-educated, silver-tongued, ex-Eton members of the Conservative Party, we need to channel this excess of talent into where their skills are most advantageous.
Tom
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