his remark is political scoring.
TM has been clear on this all along.
After brexit, the ECJ is no longer the highest court for us.
TM has been clear on this all along.
After brexit, the ECJ is no longer the highest court for us.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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You're suggesting 2 things I'm not comfortable with.
1) TM stating something that is actually correct, and the "expert" is wrong
2) TM stating something that she will actually stick to.
I'm not saying either side is correct, because I'm no legal expert (I have taken a company to court in Europe though)... however as with the whole Brexit debate.
If you look at the cast on both sides, even if I didn't know what the debate was, I'm pretty confident I know which side I'd be on... and its not the one with Farage and Gove on it.
And Theresa May's isn't?
It's not like she is burying her head in the sand!.....you too, come to that.
I read it like this: It's the EU's rules as reinforced under the relevant law at the ECJ. If the UK wishes to sell whatever we sell to the 27, every product or service will require to be EU compliant. Any new or modified products will need to be considered for compliance prior to importation into the EU.
That may sound simple but if something ever goes wrong, causing a legal dispute, contractual disagreement or whatever, which judgement will have precedence? I'm inclined to think that the 27 will rely on the ECJ rather than the UK's bought and paid for judges.
Am I missing something?
Tom
Yes. Brexit is an alternative reality with UK only rules
it would be much easier if you could take an example (such as landing slots that KD suggested) where what TM said is incorrect.
There are two aspects to influence of the ECJ: jurisdiction and primacy. At the moment, you can take anyone (eg parking his car in your driveway) or company (eg you want a refund for goods purchased on German Ebay) in the EU to court in the UK, that is jurisdiction. That will cease when we are out of the EU. The primacy issue is to be negotiated, we will import some future EU directives but not all, we will agree that the ECJ can have the last word in interpretation of the agreement between the EU and the UK but there may be strong UK representation among the judges in these cases.
Which really should enjoy the Moniker of "The reality Deniers"
Except of course that in reality nothing changes, does it?
the changes are important, if you buy something from German Ebay, you may have problems returning the goods, getting a refund and claiming back the VAT.
What is losing power and influence worth?
" In 2012, Norway was paying €340m (£245m) a year into the EU budget – the tenth-highest contributor. The thinktank Open Europe estimatesthat the UK would pay 94% of its current costs (£31.4bn annually) if it left the EU but adopted a Norway-type arrangement."
What do we have to comply with?
In return for that access Norway is obliged to implement all the EU’s laws relating to the internal market. As a result, Norway has had to implement about three-quarters of all EU legislation, including the working time directive.
A Britain choosing this track would, in other words, keep paying, it would be “run by Brussels”, and it would remain committed to the four freedoms, including free movement.
Without full European Union membership, however, it would have given up on having a say over EU policies: like Norway, it would have no vote and no presence when crucial decisions that affect the daily lives of its citizens are made.
Not Brexit is it? not in any shape or form, the Voters who wanted Brexit are being mugged.
Everyone is hoping that they will buy into this..I think they are gullible enough to do so with a few more lies thrown at them.
Ironically the ones that will end up angry in the long run will the the ones who spent Forty years arguing for Brexit when it finally dawns on them the EU have "taken back control"
"How tangled is the web we weave
When we Promote Brexit to deceive"
And how Droll that Davis is having to grovel for the very thing that will rob him of what he wants.
It never occurred to him and the other clowns with the same notion, that we don't have the means, will, technology,and organisational skills to move away from the EU into the Big wide world Markets for the same reason we failed before and joined the EEC
Incompetence, greed, investors that are nothing more than parasites and an over paid and over mighty Elite class, plus an exaggerated sense of our own capabilities hold us back, when in fact we rely of foreign industries as our own are either in decline or dead.
And they are only here because of the EU
" In 2012, Norway was paying €340m (£245m) a year into the EU budget – the tenth-highest contributor. The thinktank Open Europe estimatesthat the UK would pay 94% of its current costs (£31.4bn annually) if it left the EU but adopted a Norway-type arrangement."
What do we have to comply with?
In return for that access Norway is obliged to implement all the EU’s laws relating to the internal market. As a result, Norway has had to implement about three-quarters of all EU legislation, including the working time directive.
A Britain choosing this track would, in other words, keep paying, it would be “run by Brussels”, and it would remain committed to the four freedoms, including free movement.
Without full European Union membership, however, it would have given up on having a say over EU policies: like Norway, it would have no vote and no presence when crucial decisions that affect the daily lives of its citizens are made.
Not Brexit is it? not in any shape or form, the Voters who wanted Brexit are being mugged.
Everyone is hoping that they will buy into this..I think they are gullible enough to do so with a few more lies thrown at them.
Ironically the ones that will end up angry in the long run will the the ones who spent Forty years arguing for Brexit when it finally dawns on them the EU have "taken back control"
"How tangled is the web we weave
When we Promote Brexit to deceive"
And how Droll that Davis is having to grovel for the very thing that will rob him of what he wants.
It never occurred to him and the other clowns with the same notion, that we don't have the means, will, technology,and organisational skills to move away from the EU into the Big wide world Markets for the same reason we failed before and joined the EEC
Incompetence, greed, investors that are nothing more than parasites and an over paid and over mighty Elite class, plus an exaggerated sense of our own capabilities hold us back, when in fact we rely of foreign industries as our own are either in decline or dead.
And they are only here because of the EU
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what influence? our voice in the EU is typically of the loud mouths' and you know very well whom I am not naming.
The influence that SHOULD have been ours had we been serious
we don't fit with the EU's current agenda, besides some tariff free trade.
We have little to say that the majority of the E27 would agree with. I give some examples: we don't want to take in refugees, we don't want an EU army that would reduce influence of NATO or compete against us on arm sales, we don't want a tax on micro share trading to stop computer based trading, we don't want stringent recyling and pollution control targets etc I can fill this page with what we don't want now.
We only want to talk about reducing the EU budget.
This is the big long term downside that I foresaw long ago, the recent comment of being in the position of Cuba was very apt. Most forget or never knew that our so called big friend, the USA, were prepared for and on the verge of declaring war on Britain in 1930 in order to break up our empire, with ironically only the rise of Hitler stopping that. A future United States of Europe could just as easily be the enemy.
The world today only has three future options for any country. To be very big and powerful, to be part of a very big and powerful union, or to be so small and insignificant that no-one cares about your presence.
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So despite every item being logically desirable and necessary, we opt to be an anti-social bad neighbour instead.
We really do have an Alice in Wonderland position.
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NATO is not known as 'No Action -Talk Only' among American politicians and military top brass for nothing!
A pan-European army makes a lot of sense to me. Divorcing the UK from American military policy and American foreign policy, which have increasingly become pretty well indistinguishable from one another would be a smart move for the UK and would be well received both by our European neighbours and countries elsewhere around the planet.
Tom
A pan-European army makes a lot of sense to me. Divorcing the UK from American military policy and American foreign policy, which have increasingly become pretty well indistinguishable from one another would be a smart move for the UK and would be well received both by our European neighbours and countries elsewhere around the planet.
Tom
we are just practical. These issues will one day be relevant to all Europeans but for now, only those exposed to Russia and the Med.
There is a sea between us and the EU, metaphorically and geographically.
Who is the' we' you so comfortably make assumptions about? Call me a patriot if you like, but I don't think the majority of the UK population are the narcissistic, conservative tossers obsessed with arm sales and heartless about the plight of refugees you describe. I think at least 16 million of them are much better than that.
people / voters who gravitate towards a practical solution, the centre politics, libdems, blairites, europhile tories and those who don't vote.
Is that why Corbyn had a surge of support in the last election and pragmatic may (swinging from pro euro to hard brexit, like Boris) lost her majority. You're not describing pragmatism or middle ground. You're describing an ultra right wing perspective narrowly obsessed with UK self interest, like maga in trump land. Speak for yourself when you say arm sales and not taking in refugees are priorities. In my experience the average brit isn't that mean or narcissistic.
That's sailing boat and bow-and-arrow thinking. In this modern age that geographic sea is no more than a little gulley.
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