Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

He cant possibly answer that. Suppose I called you an alcoholic , ymits impossible to prove you are not. You are asking him to prove his is neither a xenophobe or racist. Its impossible to do so. Its been the brunt of Tom's and toba lesser degree Fleccs argument throughout. You simply can not prove you are not a racist..( both flecvand Tom quoted " my best friend is black..blah blah blah"
You lot really have grabbed the Mora high ground . You,ve all picked up on the racist card, little England BS and insist on playing it. Its actually self defeating and destructive to your cause.
I think the EU is the most corrupt inefficient organisation on the planet. End of. Nobody should be labelled because of voting in a certain way.
By the way its not racism, its prejudice.
Other thing that now makes me laugh,used to make me angry, is how so many if you jump on lesvrts backs for being even slightly insulting..but Tom and many more like him just insist on insulting leavers continually with not a word from you or perceptive king OG..just another ironic prejudice.
Seb or I it Steb did insult Oxygen. Ok , it happens. Oxygen has a go back and OG in his typical fashion attacks Oxygen and defends Steb..Prejudice again. Its a joke, when you remainers all think you are so objective.
Without realising it nearly all remainers are demonstrating tribalism but make arguments attacking it. Epitome and ironic spring to mind.

There were any number of responses he can or could make.
He can disagree or agree with the proposition that that referendum was finely balanced. He can accept or reject the reasons why the different groups may have voted as they did.. I have tried to be impartial, but as you say I would also have my prejudices and preferences.
He can accept or reject the notion that there were any white supremacists or whatever within the Brexit campaign.
I have not called him or indeed anyone else a racist or xenophobe or even a fool.. if you look back over previous posts of mine, I have at various times agree with aspects of posts from virtually all, and likewise have disagreed with virtually all on different topics. You will also note that I on a number of occurrences have asked posters to dial back the invective. I have given up on that as it has had no noticeable effect.
Actually it is possible to prove one is not an alcoholic...and I am not one. Consumption patterns, liver condition etc . I have never been drunk in my life. I am sitting now with a glass of 2.5% cider and it is all I will be consuming today

You are entitled to your low opinion regarding the EU, but considering it the most corrupt on the planet is surely hyperbole.

 

[oldtom]

I make the score EU 5 v UK 0.
/QUOTE]

.......and it isn't even half-time yet!

Tom

 

[flecc]

Old Groaner with his laser sharp logic but not an ounce of true insight. Dave with his prima donna self obsession. KLM - well it's a wonder he sells anything given the way he thinks. And Whoosh even he occasionally gives into the idea that some sort of 'soft' Brexit is anything other than a total contradiction in terms. But at least he's honest. I won't even try to say anything about Tom because the internet is the only social life the guy has and who would take that from him? Not me.

And so it rolls on.

Oh dear, I didn't get a mention, where am I going wrong?
.

 

[Danidl]

Oh dear, i didn't get a mention, where am I going wrong?
.

.. don't worry Zlantan didn't forget you...

 

[Kudoscycles]

if the dispute is about German landing slots then the local court has competence. I can't see any problem with that.
The ECJ deals with the interpretation of EU laws. Even if you petition the ECJ, your chance of being heard is very small. They pick and choose which cases they want to hear.

Are you sure...Ryanair has turned to the ECJ over its dispute of the fairness of the auction of the landing slots ex Air Berlin,because these slots are distributed European wide. This is why the airlines are so concerned about Theresa May's anti attitude to the ECJ,she will give in,just needs to overcome the menopause.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

You are asking him to prove his is neither a xenophobe or racist. Its impossible to do so. Its been the brunt of Tom's and to a lesser degree Fleccs argument throughout. You simply can not prove you are not a racist..( both Flecc and Tom quoted " my best friend is black..blah blah blah"

In respect of my input, wildly inaccurate on each of both points, illustrating why your judgment is so badly flawed.
.

 

[Woosh]

Are you sure...Ryanair has turned to the ECJ over its dispute of the fairness of the auction of the landing slots ex Air Berlin,because these slots are distributed European wide. This is why the airlines are so concerned about Theresa May's anti attitude to the ECJ,she will give in,just needs to overcome the menopause.
KudosDave

at the moment, you can sue anyone in the EU from your desk via the British Court system. Imagine someone does it to you from Latvia.This convenience can be easily turned against the EU.

 

[Zlatan]

There were any number of responses he can or could make.
He can disagree or agree with the proposition that that referendum was finely balanced. He can accept or reject the reasons why the different groups may have voted as they did.. I have tried to be impartial, but as you say I would also have my prejudices and preferences.
He can accept or reject the notion that there were any white supremacists or whatever within the Brexit campaign.
I have not called him or indeed anyone else a racist or xenophobe or even a fool.. if you look back over previous posts of mine, I have at various times agree with aspects of posts from virtually all, and likewise have disagreed with virtually all on different topics. You will also note that I on a number of occurrences have asked posters to dial back the invective. I have given up on that as it has had no noticeable effect.
Actually it is possible to prove one is not an alcoholic...and I am not one. Consumption patterns, liver condition etc . I have never been drunk in my life. I am sitting now with a glass of 2.5% cider and it is all I will be consuming today

You are entitled to your low opinion regarding the EU, but considering it the most corrupt on the planet is surely hyperbole.

Perhaps...

 

[oldtom]

Those who occupy what they consider the centre ground in the matter of 'Brexit' really ought to have a read of this:

open-letter-every-centrist-needs-read-right-now-editorial

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Those who occupy what they consider the centre ground in the matter of 'Brexit' really ought to have a read of this:

open-letter-every-centrist-needs-read-right-now-editorial

Tom

that was a piece of non-sense.

In short, if we reduce ‘extremist’ to mean anyone who agitates unequivocally for their cause, we are all extremists – including centrists. The only question is: what are you going to be an extremist for? In the case of the centre, the answer seems to be: ambivalence.

The guy insults people and opinion on the left, right and centre. Who does he think he is? god's gift? the one with a brain?

 

[Steb]

that was a piece of non-sense.

The guy insults people and opinion on the left, right and centre. Who does he think he is? god's gift? the one with a brain?

Look, the last few pages have been more heat than light. Reread tom's post - he expresses a passionately held view unequivocally. But he didn't make it personal. On this occasion you have. There is a line between vigorous debate and personal attack. If you disagree with his views on extremism, why not explain your different view instead?

 

[Woosh]

Steb, you jumped to conclusion.
If you think my criticism was directed at OT, it wasn't.
Re-read my post, I quoted from the piece in the Canary that OT suggested to centrists like myself should read. Maybe you should read it too.
I read it and rated it (the piece in the Canary) as poor taste.The Guardian, by coincidence, has a less confrontational and more interesting view of centrists, the Swiss way. It's buried inside the article but at least, it's constructive.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/23/remainers-second-referendum-brexit

 

[Steb]

Steb, you jumped to conclusion.
If you think my criticism was directed at OT, it wasn't.
Re-read my post, I quoted from the piece in the Canary that OT suggested to centrists like myself should read. Maybe you should read it too.
I read it and rated it (the piece in the Canary) as poor taste.The Guardian, by coincidence, has a less confrontational and more interesting view of centrists, the Swiss way. It's buried inside the article but at least, it's constructive.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/23/remainers-second-referendum-brexit

I see..misunderstanding,my apologies. however I agree with the piece in the canary..i think there's rather a lot of damaging conservatism dressed up as centrist in UK politics

 

[Woosh]

I see..misunderstanding,my apologies. however I agree with the piece in the canary..i think there's rather a lot of damaging conservatism dressed up as centrist in UK politics

choosing the centre is a valid choice, not cowardice. You examine the worthiness of arguments on both sides and suggest the way forward. It takes effort and careful thinking, no prejudice from me.
If you read my posts, I always strive to check my data before including them,

 

[Steb]

choosing the centre is a valid choice, not cowardice. You examine the worthiness of arguments on both sides and suggest the way forward. It takes effort and careful thinking, no prejudice from me.
If you read my posts, I always strive to check my data before including them,

Frankly, I disagree. Comparing the UK to Norway or suggesting may doesn't want to take UK out of echr as part of trying to focus on the ecj's alleged differences with echr was at best you not researching data, at worst disingenuous. I am not sure that bending facts to substantiate ones views is either unique to you or centrists(I'm sure I've done it) but the - colossal - problem with brexit is the way it was based on deliberate misinformation. On this occasion we can't afford as a country to return to our familiar insincere politics.

 

[Woosh]

the battle of brexit is fought everyday on the BBC and other media. I don't think at the time of the last GE anyone was still fooled by the £350 million a week for the NHS or believed in the promise that we could get a deal paying the EU nothing, reject the ECJ, FOM and keep the same access to the single market. Ask yourself why the tories are still the largest party. Remainers just don't want to accept that half the country still want brexit.

 

[Danidl]

the battle of brexit is fought everyday on the BBC and other media. I don't think at the time of the last GE anyone was still fooled by the £350 million a week for the NHS or believed in the promise that we could get a deal paying the EU nothing, reject the ECJ, FOM and keep the same access to the single market. Ask yourself why the tories are still the largest party. Remainers just don't want to accept that half the country still want brexit.

... And leavers won't accept that half the country want to stay... Could you consider that the psychological principle of consumer risk had taken place... We made a decision , so we stick to our decision right or wrong. it takes a lot to be bothered changing our mind. When one buys a bike say one of your models , one is invested in that decision and will defend the decision unless it turns out to be an absolute lemon, not suggesting that is the situation with your product..
The leavers are invested because they got what they say they wanted. The remainers are not invested,

 

[oldgroaner]

More signs of trying to sell what the "Will of the people" doesn't want in the Telegraph
"
Immigration figures under review as new checks suggest numbers are far lower than thought

Which means more will be encouraged to come? Hmm!

And here
"
Our pragmatic European Court plans keep faith with the public's vote for Brexit

How does it do that pray? it's FOREIGN

And this
"
‘‘Fascism is not Conservatism, and conservatives must make that clear’’

Why is this necessary? and what changes of policy will be required?

And in the Express of all papers
"
May softens ECJ pledge to cut ties: PM paves way for Norwegian model of 'indirect' EU rule
DAVID Davis will today make clear that Britain believes it is neither necessary nor appropriate for the European Court of Justice to continue having a direct say in UK affairs after Brexit but that indirectly the court may still have jurisdiction.

To Brexit or not the Brexit that is the question.

They lied at the Referendum and they are lying again,

 

[anotherkiwi]

My turn

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/24/around-6-million-middle-aged-english-people-take-no-exercise?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=240736&subid=8616881&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Now that isn't fair! They walked to the voting station last year to vote for brexit!

 

[Woosh]

My turn

Now that isn't fair! They walked to the voting station last year to vote for brexit!

are you implying that the other 11 millions are fit?