Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

It seems to me that the Brexit discussion/ arguments are argued in both these levels without distinguishing between them.

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.
The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'
They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

 

[Kudoscycles]

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.
The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'
They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

They may know what they want,but do they know why they want it.?
One of my criticisms of Brexiters is they don't want to consider the effects of their vote or assist in sorting out the problems resulting from it.Often those who say 'we voted Leave now Leave' are not those who have to deliver Brexit....I suspect,as yet,Brexit has had no impact on their lives,by the time it has an effect it may be too late to reverse that effect.....for some of us,Brexit is causing and will cause a lot of work and difficult decisions that appear unnecessary.
What I don't want to hear is moaning from Brexiters that Brexit hasn't delivered whatever they expected ,Brexiters often say that their vote was based upon due diligence,so they can't say that they were uniformed.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

after 44 years, if as you say, the majority does not know what they are leaving then may be the explanation is that what they are leaving does not matter much to them.

Perhaps not, but the consequences will engage their attention before long, and it will as always "Be someone else's fault!"

 

[oldgroaner]

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.
The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'
They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

No the don't , they know what they "Desire" what they want is a more sensible better informed and responsible point of view.

 

[oldgroaner]

Guess the Paragon on virtue who wrote this in the Guardian
"
Junket Juncker strikes again! And £24k is just the tip of the iceberg
NIGEL FARAGE

Joke of the day, surely!

 

[oldgroaner]

Poll in the Daily Express today
Has Brexit made the UK''s future uncertain?
YES 53% No 47%
That's interesting!

 

[Zlatan]

"The European Union is facing an expenses scandal after it had to admit that its senior officials had claimed tens of thousands of pounds to hire private jets and stay at luxury hotels.

Those embroiled include Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, as well as the head of EU foreign affairs, Federica Mogherini.

The figures, published after three years of “Kafkaesque” delays, reveal that EU officials spent more than £90,000 on chartering planes which are described on their expense claims as “air taxis”.


Seems all politicians are on gravy train.

It is suggested Junker spent £24 k on a recent trip to Rome.

 

[Zlatan]

And from the Financial Times..
"A new EU competition investigation into Germany’s top carmakers threatens the credibility of the entire industry, a German minister has warned, after Brussels confirmed it was probing suspected collusion on technology.

If proven, the allegations could plunge an industry already battered by Volkswagen’s emissions-cheating scandal into a fresh crisis.

Brigitte Zypries, German economics minister, said she took “very seriously” the allegations the allegations that Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler ” had for years run secret technology working groups.


“What’s at stake here is nothing less than the credibility . . . of the whole German car industry. Without comprehensive clarification, confidence cannot be restored,” Ms Zypries said. She added that all the carmakers implicated in the allegations would be “well advised to fully co-operate with the authorities and ensure transparency”"

We shouldn't be buying VAG cars anyway after the appalling emissions fiasco which did give us all an insight into many car makers attitudes ...Another reason to buy Ford ( and Jaguar/ Land Rover)

No wonder Merkel is aging so quick..not sure who is winning that particular race...hard to call between her and May..

 

[oldgroaner]

"The European Union is facing an expenses scandal after it had to admit that its senior officials had claimed tens of thousands of pounds to hire private jets and stay at luxury hotels.

Those embroiled include Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, as well as the head of EU foreign affairs, Federica Mogherini.

The figures, published after three years of “Kafkaesque” delays, reveal that EU officials spent more than £90,000 on chartering planes which are described on their expense claims as “air taxis”.


Seems all politicians are on gravy train.

It is suggested Junker spent £24 k on a recent trip to Rome.

Just the same as here,isn't it?
Wonder how much we Pay not only for the fun of having Politicians, but the Royals as well??

 

[oldgroaner]

And from the Financial Times..
"A new EU competition investigation into Germany’s top carmakers threatens the credibility of the entire industry, a German minister has warned, after Brussels confirmed it was probing suspected collusion on technology.

If proven, the allegations could plunge an industry already battered by Volkswagen’s emissions-cheating scandal into a fresh crisis.

Brigitte Zypries, German economics minister, said she took “very seriously” the allegations the allegations that Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler ” had for years run secret technology working groups.


“What’s at stake here is nothing less than the credibility . . . of the whole German car industry. Without comprehensive clarification, confidence cannot be restored,” Ms Zypries said. She added that all the carmakers implicated in the allegations would be “well advised to fully co-operate with the authorities and ensure transparency”"

We shouldn't be buying VAG cars anyway after the appalling emissions fiasco which did give us all an insight into many car makers attitudes ...Another reason to buy Ford ( and Jaguar/ Land Rover)

What do you expect from Capitalists? they are the same the world over, and ours showed them how it was done in the First place, and still set them an example.
The only difference is ours prefer to invest where there is cheap labour and no Environmental laws rather can keep production here.

 

[Steb]

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.
The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'
They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

Do they? There is a difference between consent and informed consent. The brexit decision was based on lies. Beyond these on enormous ignorance.

 

[Woosh]

They may know what they want,but do they know why they want it.?

what do you believe the answer be? Is their intelligence so subnormal?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

"The European Union is facing an expenses scandal after it had to admit that its senior officials had claimed tens of thousands of pounds to hire private jets and stay at luxury hotels.

Those embroiled include Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, as well as the head of EU foreign affairs, Federica Mogherini.

The figures, published after three years of “Kafkaesque” delays, reveal that EU officials spent more than £90,000 on chartering planes which are described on their expense claims as “air taxis”.


Seems all politicians are on gravy train.

It is suggested Junker spent £24 k on a recent trip to Rome.

This is the exact problem with this debate. People don't read past the headlines or use any thinking power before they react.

Lets look at this case.

£24k on a trip to rome, seems like a lot yes. But the reason they sorted an air taxis was because there were 9 or 10 of them going. There were no other flight options that fitted the trip. If you work in business you have to look at all the costs. Using a cheaper flight might have meant an extra night away, which would have been more expensive. Divide the costs by the number of people going and then compare the the other costs that you are I are not aware of and you might find this £24k is actually a bargain compared to the other ways of getting to that event / meeting.

THINK.

 

[flecc]

I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.

Because the reasons they voted as they did were so often idiotic.

The adverse comments were so often brought upon themselves.
.

 

[flecc]

Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler ” had for years run secret technology working groups.

I'm pleased to learn this may have happened, pooling knowledge in this way can bring more improvement, so I don't assume as some do that it was with evil intent.

The World's three big jet engine makers, Pratt & Whitney, GE and Rolls Royce have worked as a secretive technological partrnership for years to all our benefits. It's why new major aircraft can be specified with the make an airline already uses to keep costs down for us, the passengers.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

what do you believe the answer be? Is their intelligence so subnormal?

Conversely one might ask, "is it the sign of the application of normal levels of intelligence" when one comes to a fundamentally self harming decision affecting nor merely oneself but future generations? because you accepted lies at Face Value and didn't check any offered information with due diligence?

Are you making such an assertion?
I call it irresponsible for want of a better word.

 

[shemozzle999]

because you accepted lies at Face Value and didn't check any offered information with due diligence?
Are you making such an assertion?
I call it irresponsible for want of a better word.

 

[Danidl]

And from the Financial Times..
"A new EU competition investigation into Germany’s top carmakers threatens the credibility of the entire industry, a German minister has warned, after Brussels confirmed it was probing suspected collusion on technology.

If proven, the allegations could plunge an industry already battered by Volkswagen’s emissions-cheating scandal into a fresh crisis.

Brigitte Zypries, German economics minister, said she took “very seriously” the allegations the allegations that Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler ” had for years run secret technology working groups.


“What’s at stake here is nothing less than the credibility . . . of the whole German car industry. Without comprehensive clarification, confidence cannot be restored,” Ms Zypries said. She added that all the carmakers implicated in the allegations would be “well advised to fully co-operate with the authorities and ensure transparency”"

We shouldn't be buying VAG cars anyway after the appalling emissions fiasco which did give us all an insight into many car makers attitudes ...Another reason to buy Ford ( and Jaguar/ Land Rover)

No wonder Merkel is aging so quick..not sure who is winning that particular race...hard to call between her and May..

A number of points
1. This is the silly season for news so don't assume much from headlines and articles
2. If they are cooperating on technology is that not a good thing. By its nature technology development is usually a trade secret.

3. If they are seeking to manipulate the market as a cartel, by actions illegal, is it not also a good thing that there is an external EU presence, able and willing to police and investigate this on behalf of European citizens.

 

[Danidl]

"The European Union is facing an expenses scandal after it had to admit that its senior officials had claimed tens of thousands of pounds to hire private jets and stay at luxury hotels.

Those embroiled include Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, as well as the head of EU foreign affairs, Federica Mogherini.

The figures, published after three years of “Kafkaesque” delays, reveal that EU officials spent more than £90,000 on chartering planes which are described on their expense claims as “air taxis”.


Seems all politicians are on gravy train.

It is suggested Junker spent £24 k on a recent trip to Rome.

Zatlan
A number of points again
1. We are still in the journalism silly season.
2. If you have ever worked in the public service, or in some of the major public companies, you will have probably noted that their accounts departments recommendations for travel are often bizzare. If one followed these guidelines, it might take days to transact what would be a three hour meeting. Travel is tiring , it is one thing to gear oneself up for the excitement of the long distance haul for the annual holiday, and suffer the cramped conditions, it is quite another when you are required to do this biweekly. Business class exists for a reason.
3. Private air flights, while significantly more expensive for a single person, than a scheduled air flight. can be much more affordable when there is a group going.
Having had the benefit ? of two flights on an air ambulance, I can assure you they were no luxury. But time was of the essence. Until the details are known, or even wanted, better to refrain from judgement

 

[Danidl]

what do you believe the answer be? Is their intelligence so subnormal?

... At the risk of stating the obvious, probably 50% were of below average intelligence.