Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

BTW, I believe in the existence of extra-terrestrials, who am I to preach to the JW? (Just joking, I don't really).
If you don't try to convert them to your belief then I think that's respect enough of their right to beliefs.

 

[flecc]

My opinions on soccer and most assuredly cricket are I assure you useless, (Fleec may also believe that my options on hi-fi are equally useless)

Ditto on football and cricket, mainly because I can't see the point of chasing a ball around a field. I preferred "The Prisoner" where the ball chased the people.

But with the hi-fi that isn't true, since it's so much an area of personal taste, like foods and home environments. In these it's not possible to have a value judgement on another's preferences, or therefore an opinion as to their worth. We can only say "That's not for me".
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trump gave Merkel a bill for 300 billion at their last meeting,for back contribution to NATO,no wonder Merkel looked glum in the states.
It's like inviting a friend down for the weekend and over dinner reminding them that it would be a good time to cough up the £50k they have owed for 10 years.....Trumps been reading the book 'how to win friends and influence people'
Still Merkel can get some of it when she gets the 60 billion out of May,but Greece will soon use that on another bail out.
I remember we used to talk about hundreds of millions but that is so last year,billions are the new currency.
I wonder how long it will be before we get like Germany and walk into the supermarket with a wheelbarrow of money to buy life's essentials....Newcastle Brown,Carlsberg export,hehe
I joked about Ireland coming out of the EU would cure the border problem,not realising that is a possibility.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Trump gave Merkel a bill for 300 billion at their last meeting,for back contribution to NATO,no wonder Merkel looked glum in the states.
It's like inviting a friend down for the weekend and over dinner reminding them that it would be a good time to cough up the £50k they have owed for 10 years.....Trumps been reading the book 'how to win friends and influence people'
Still Merkel can get some of it when she gets the 60 billion out of May,but Greece will soon use that on another bail out.
I remember we used to talk about hundreds of millions but that is so last year,billions are the new currency.
I wonder how long it will be before we get like Germany and walk into the supermarket with a wheelbarrow of money to buy life's essentials....Newcastle Brown,Carlsberg export,hehe
I joked about Ireland coming out of the EU would cure the border problem,not realising that is a possibility.
KudosDave

.... And I joked about setting the EU border along Hadrian's wall , not realising that it was a possibility!

 

[oldgroaner]

that's still not the reason to disrespect their rights or choice. There are plenty of supportive reasons why uninformed opinions must still be respected. Our parliamentarians did the right thing to pass the brexit law but now it's time to make sure that the deal the government will be negotiating is an inclusive one.

What utter rot! in any normal world a massive change of this nature would call for a 2:1 vote in favour of that change and even Farage said that!
Ignorance of the way the EU worked was Pandemic among the Public and your own optimism proves that ignorance has't reduced as more information has become available.
Here is an example of what we can expect from the Idiot Gove.
"
Britain can slash Brussels regulations on clinical trials for new drugs and on building near protected wildlife habitats now that it is leaving the European Union, Michael Gove has said.

The Tory MP and former cabinet minister, who was a key figure in the Brexit campaign, said the pledge to “take back control” could allow Britain to scrap “absurd” rules such as the European Commission’s Habitats Directive and Clinical Trials Directive."

Now tell me that you still have no reservations of the fitness for purpose of Brexit. and the Muppets in Parliament.
We can look forward to poisons in the food chain and from untested drugs, and you claim this is a good idea?

 

[oldgroaner]

that's still not the reason to disrespect their rights or choice. There are plenty of supportive reasons why uninformed opinions must still be respected. Our parliamentarians did the right thing to pass the brexit law but now it's time to make sure that the deal the government will be negotiating is an inclusive one.

And how are you going to do that?
Go on, give us a clue.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Trump gave Merkel a bill for 300 billion at their last meeting,for back contribution to NATO,no wonder Merkel looked glum in the states.
It's like inviting a friend down for the weekend and over dinner reminding them that it would be a good time to cough up the £50k they have owed for 10 years.....Trumps been reading the book 'how to win friends and influence people'
Still Merkel can get some of it when she gets the 60 billion out of May,but Greece will soon use that on another bail out.
I remember we used to talk about hundreds of millions but that is so last year,billions are the new currency.
I wonder how long it will be before we get like Germany and walk into the supermarket with a wheelbarrow of money to buy life's essentials....Newcastle Brown,Carlsberg export,hehe
I joked about Ireland coming out of the EU would cure the border problem,not realising that is a possibility.
KudosDave

You looking for a red card too Dave? The UK will get a bill from the EU, Merkel is the leader of Germany! That is a country. One that hasn't lost its sovereignty.

It is for pensions (you know, retired people...) and previous contractual agreements signed by the UK. Now if the UK is going to default on signed contracts it may not be very encouraging to do any trade with the UK. Just saying...

 

[Woosh]

What utter rot! in any normal world a massive change of this nature would call for a 2:1 vote in favour of that change and even Farage said that!
Ignorance of the way the EU worked was Pandemic among the Public and your own optimism proves that ignorance has't reduced as more information has become available.
Here is an example of what we can expect from the Idiot Gove.
"
Britain can slash Brussels regulations on clinical trials for new drugs and on building near protected wildlife habitats now that it is leaving the European Union, Michael Gove has said.

The Tory MP and former cabinet minister, who was a key figure in the Brexit campaign, said the pledge to “take back control” could allow Britain to scrap “absurd” rules such as the European Commission’s Habitats Directive and Clinical Trials Directive."

Now tell me that you still have no reservations of the fitness for purpose of Brexit. and the Muppets in Parliament.
We can look forward to poisons in the food chain and from untested drugs, and you claim this is a good idea?

Our future laws from the brexit point is to continue as before, and possibly before long, these 'ignoramuses' may well become irrelevant.
You seem to think that we have to hand the country over to them now and forever. Why?
Brexit is a big thing but it is now back to parliament's control. Let's just keep it that way.

 

[Danidl]

Our future laws from the brexit point is to continue as before, and possibly before long, these 'ignoramuses' may well become irrelevant.
You seem to think that we have to hand the country over to them now and forever. Why?
Brexit is a big thing but it is now back to parliament's control. Let's just keep it that way.

Mrs May was not invited to the EU 60 year celebrations. I think that that was uncalled for and petty. Unless and until the formal letter of resignation has been posted, the UK remains a fully paid up member of the club and entitled to attend all the events.

 

[flecc]

Mrs May was not invited to the EU 60 year celebrations. I think that that was uncalled for and petty. Unless and until the formal letter of resignation has been posted, the UK remains a fully paid up member of the club and entitled to attend all the events.

Not so sure, it was a celebration of unity, so her presence would have been as a wet blanket. We aren't an example of unity in EU terms, and never have been.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Our future laws from the brexit point is to continue as before, and possibly before long, these 'ignoramuses' may well become irrelevant.
You seem to think that we have to hand the country over to them now and forever. Why?
Brexit is a big thing but it is now back to parliament's control. Let's just keep it that way.

How do you intend that we "get the country back" exactly?
Will there be another slogan "Taking back control?"
let me remind you, the people who voted for Brexit voted AGAINST the Government and thought that they were TAKING BACK CONTROL, not giving control back to the people they were voting AGAINST.
The big concern has to be that thay will regard voting as useless to achieve the changes they wanted when Brexit fails to deliver them.
Do you imagine we can go through all this AGAIN? elect another Government and it then fails to deliver too?and the public will be satisifed.?
They want their COUNTRY BACK RIGHT NOW AND THEY WANT IT WITHOUT IT COSTING THEM.
If they don't get that anything can happen and unfortunately it could, and all for nothing.

 

[Woosh]

OG, your reasoning is based on the assumption that the tories are going to govern for ever. That is not going to happen.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, your reasoning is based on the assumption that the tories are going to govern for ever. That is not going to happen.

No it's not, it's based on the obvious fact that NO Government of any stripe can make this small backward island run by a very dubious class of investors and sharks, with no real industrial or material wealth base going for it successful beyond favouring the rich to the disadvantage of the poor, using Financial swindling to keep it tottering along.

Size matters in the modern world, so we make ourselves so much smaller?
Madness!
We are painting ourselves into a corner in the upstairs bedroom of a decrepit old building that is falling down, with a fire on the stairs.
And all because of a marginal vote by a public that through no fault of their own had no idea that what they were voting for would result in the opposite result to that which they desired.
Mugged is the appropriate term.

 

[Woosh]

We are painting ourselves into a corner in the upstairs bedroom of a decrepit old building that is falling down, with a fire on the stairs.

no, happy go lucky.

 

[oldtom]

OK. Please explain to me the logic of the Greek bailout.

I have just been catching up with some of the drivel posted by 'Brexidiots' while I have been away. Some of it is simply incredible and I find your recent contributions particularly nauseating, centred as they are on economic matters.

You posted previously that it is your belief that Greece should not have been allowed to join the EU -

The rules of the Euro should have been more flexible, Greece should not have been allowed to join.

I replied like this:

That is just utter nonsense - you really haven't grasped the fundamentals of European integration.

Since then, you have gone on to demonstrate exactly what I said - you really don't understand, bringing everything down to the level of a company balance sheet, totally failing to see that the EU is about far more than simply money. Have you forgotten that governments in many countries but most particularly this one, have printed new money to the tune of multi-billions of pounds through the ludicrous 'QE' programme with no perceptible devaluation of the currency. Why then do you place such importance on money when it can be simply magicked out of thin air whenever it suits the plutocrats?

I really don't have the words to describe the level of stupidity by those who believe that there are economic benefits to be gained in the UK through secession from the EU. This chap describes better than I can why the EU is a desirable place for European countries, large and small, rich and poor:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154532798547689

Many 'Brexidiots' don't seem to know that one, Winston Churchill, held in great esteem by so many far-right groups, was an early advocate of European integration, witness this piece of history:



Tom

 

[Woosh]

you really don't understand, bringing everything down to the level of a company balance sheet, totally failing to see that the EU is about far more than simply money. Have you forgotten that governments in many countries but most particularly

So you accept that Greece should not have joined the Eurozone on economic ground.
I can accept that the EU is more than about the money.
the EU project takes away power from state governments and moves it to the EU government.
Possible reason for that is the power is seen as not safe if left in the hand of state governments. They would start a new war. But would they really? The early members were already members of NATO.
You may like it but a little more than half of the UK doesn't. Democracy is good when it suits you, isn't it?

 

[OxygenJames]

I see this thread is still going strong huh? Jolly good. Just two more days till we get our freedom back! The good news just keeps coming. Today from the Telegraph I saw this:

"Sir James Dyson, the billionaire investor, has said he is "enormously optimistic" about Britain's prospects outside the EU and believes that the UK has nothing to fear from a hard Brexit.

The inventor said that if the UK fails to secure a trade deal with Brussels and has to resort to World Trade Organisation tariffs, which range from 5 per cent to 10 per cent, it will be a "tiny penalty to pay".

He highlighted the fact that his business already pays World Trade Organisation tariffs because it manufactures products in Singapore then exports them around the World.

Sir James, who backed Brexit, said: “They have not held us back at all. It is clearly not a barrier to exporting into Europe.”

Sir James said that he does not expect Britain's to have to fall back on WTO tariffs: "I don’t believe it will get to that, it’s not in Europe’s interests,” he said.

In an interview with the BBC Sir James said that he is "enormously optimistic" about the UK's trading prospects in future.

He said: "Europe's only 15 per cent of the global market and the really fast-expanding markets are in the Far East.

"I'm enormously optimistic because looking outwards to the rest of the world is very, very important because that's the fast-growing bit."


Great huh? Darn all the negativity. Have a nice day.

 

[oldtom]

So you accept that Greece should not have joined the Eurozone on economic ground.

You really are unbelievably ignorant and childish. How could you possibly come to such a stupid conclusion, once again based on your money, money, money paradigm?

Not content with that display of stupidity, you then throw up this ridiculous remark:

Democracy is good when it suits you, isn't it?

I don't suppose it matters who on planet Earth were to explain the value of the EU to you, it wouldn't make any difference as you are so entrenched in your views, gleaned from years of brainwashing that there really is no hope for people like you.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

You looking for a red card too Dave? The UK will get a bill from the EU, Merkel is the leader of Germany! That is a country. One that hasn't lost its sovereignty.

It is for pensions (you know, retired people...) and previous contractual agreements signed by the UK. Now if the UK is going to default on signed contracts it may not be very encouraging to do any trade with the UK. Just saying...

The Leavers will be throwing their toys out of the pram if we have to give a penny to the EU upon exit,never mind £50billion.....dont forget they expected to get £11billion back not hand it out.
I realised that Merkel is Germany not the EU,but the bill was given to Merkel.If you take Germany out of the EU then it is finished,the EU is Germany.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

For those who have open minds, unencumbered by the constantly transmitted views of the tory party through their chums who own all the major media providers, there are other views.

This man was one of the negotiators at the time of the Treaty of Rome and he has this to say:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154535494837689

Tom