Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Oh, look the NFU... the voice of farmers, they must be experts on farming.

yesterday expressing major concerns about labour shortages.

As many "leavers" don't seem to want to acknowlegde... WE NEED THIS MIGRANT LABOUR!!

Farmers have warned that food will “rot in the fields” and Britain will be unable to produce what it eats if the government cannot guarantee that growers will continue to have access to tens of thousands of EU workers after Brexit.

Meurig Raymond, president of the National Farmers’ Union, told the body’s annual conference in Birmingham that farmers and food processors, particularly in horticulture and poultry, were already having difficulty recruiting.

The value of the pound, which reduces the value of pay seasonal workers send home to EU countries, and uncertainty over longer-term UK residency rights are discouraging workers from eastern Europe. High levels of employment in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are also squeezing the supply of workers.

Coming soon: turnips are the new kale
Read more
The NFU said it needed government to help encourage workers from elsewhere to come to the UK to help with jobs like strawberry-picking and processing chicken

"High levels of employment in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are also squeezing the supply of workers."...….

Hi KTM, that is a very interesting statement which if true validates the existence of the EU. These countries were basketcases a decade ago. What evidence have you for this assertion.

 

[tillson]

'In 1992 PFI was implemented for the first time in the UK by the Conservative government of John Major.'

That is a straight lift from a respectable internet source.

Tom

Blair / Brown and the other Labour clowns were handing out PFI contracts very freely during their term in office. We will be paying the price for their stupidity for many years to come.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You missed the point, KTM.
We treat about 1 million economically inactive EU citizens at the moment very much like our own.
After brexit, not much will change for those with a job but a lot will for many among the 1 million without a job.

Firstly where have you got this "1 million" figure from? I'm not saying its wrong, but in February 2016, so 1 year ago... the Treasury minister Jim O’Neill was asked by the Labour peer Jeremy Beecham to give an estimate of “the annual benefits paid to EU migrants in the UK and the contribution of those individuals to the public purse through income tax receipts and VAT”. O’Neill replied tersely: “The information is not available.”

There are about 3 million EU citizens in the UK, and you think 1 in 3 is on benefits, so 33%

Just compare that to the UK as a whole.

The welfare state is a big part of British family life, with 20.3 million families receiving some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners.

You're not considering the fact there are UK citizens claiming benefits in the EU.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

"High levels of employment in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are also squeezing the supply of workers."...….

Hi KTM, that is a very interesting statement which if true validates the existence of the EU. These countries were basketcases a decade ago. What evidence have you for this assertion.

The statement wasn't mine, it was from the head of the NFU.

http://www.nfuonline.com/sectors/crops/crops-news/harvest-highlights-post-brexit-labour-questions-s/

 

[anotherkiwi]

Silly question: are they claiming benefits because they are seasonal workers?

 

[tillson]

Trump is a liar. Just like the leaders of the 'Brexit' campaign in the UK, he lied to his country's people and perhaps to his cost in the not too distant future, his lies to the military may come back to bite him.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-hiring-freeze-forces-suspension-of-military-child-care-programs-3dbd6a7b7fa3#.3qn3xm1yz

Tom

More left wing sewage.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/think-progress/

 

[Zlatan]

KTM
Have you checked with KTM / Cross Industries that your views are indicative / representative of the company you represent?
It is a public forum ??? Could be argued your opinions are alienating potential customers ? ( Vice versa they could agree and think its attracting them, but I wouldn't be impressed if I was Cross or owner of KTM) Not my business , only saying..

 

[anotherkiwi]

There isn't much for her to say. She has no role. She lost to Donald.

More like she lost to the Electoral College having won the popular vote.

 

[tillson]

Oh, look the NFU... the voice of farmers, they must be experts on farming.

yesterday expressing major concerns about labour shortages.

As many "leavers" don't seem to want to acknowlegde... WE NEED THIS MIGRANT LABOUR!!

Farmers have warned that food will “rot in the fields” and Britain will be unable to produce what it eats if the government cannot guarantee that growers will continue to have access to tens of thousands of EU workers after Brexit.

Meurig Raymond, president of the National Farmers’ Union, told the body’s annual conference in Birmingham that farmers and food processors, particularly in horticulture and poultry, were already having difficulty recruiting.

The value of the pound, which reduces the value of pay seasonal workers send home to EU countries, and uncertainty over longer-term UK residency rights are discouraging workers from eastern Europe. High levels of employment in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are also squeezing the supply of workers.

Coming soon: turnips are the new kale
Read more
The NFU said it needed government to help encourage workers from elsewhere to come to the UK to help with jobs like strawberry-picking and processing chicken

There is a vast pool of UK labour available. It is currently being "warehoused" on benefits because the differential between working and claiming benefits provides no incentive to work. They just need incentivising by increasing that margin.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

KTM
Have you checked with KTM / Cross Industries that your views are indicative / representative of the company you represent?
It is a public forum ???

I'm not really putting across opinions, I'm trying to present facts, which was the point of the thread wasn't it?

But just FYI, the chief of KTM is German, living and working in Austria, and married to a nice lady from Liverpool - she cried on the morning of the 24th June, I know because I was in Austria that morning. They were gutted.

As a company you won't find many more pro EU work forces I suspect.

 

[flecc]

"High levels of employment in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are also squeezing the supply of workers."...….

Hi KTM, that is a very interesting statement which if true validates the existence of the EU. These countries were basketcases a decade ago. What evidence have you for this assertion.

There has been a large growth in employment in Poland, the Czech republic, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania since they joined the EU

There's been several elements in this. First is the setting up of Western European large manufacturing facilities in several of those countries. Initially that resulted in direct employment jobs, but has expanded into local parts supply companies being set up to supply the major facilities production.

Second is the move of a number of UK farmers selling up here and buying vast tracts of the cheap but high quality Romanian and Bulgarian flat lands and bringing large scale modern farming to there.

A third example is the number of our UK people moving to such as Bulgaria to take advantage of dirt cheap housing. This has brought an inflow of Western money, particularly pensions, stimulating existing and new local companies to supply their needs. My sister is one of them, a very happy Bulgarian resident.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

There is a vast pool of UK labour available. It is currently being "warehoused" on benefits because the differential between working and claiming benefits provides no incentive to work. They just need incentivising by increasing that margin.

3 million EU citizens in the UK.

UK unemployment fell by 37,000 to 1.6 million in the three months to September, hitting an 11-year low.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37997713

So if the EU citizens leave, we're short 1.4 million people to fill those spaces in jobs.

We're also expecting the current UK unemployed to suddenly be qualified to do these job?

I don't think your idea adds up does it?

 

[tillson]

More like she lost to the Electoral College having won the popular vote.

Them's the rules. It was the same for everyone. She could have been the president under exactly the same set of circumstances, if she had won. But she didn't win. She lost.

 

[oldtom]

Hi KTM, that is a very interesting statement which if true validates the existence of the EU. These countries were basketcases a decade ago. What evidence have you for this assertion.

Perhaps I can help with that. The attached article is from The Economist a little over 3 years ago and reveals a different impression of those former eastern bloc countries just a few years after joining the EU.

You may remember the national dailies prophesying rampaging hordes of eastern Europeans heading for Britain when it was announced that Romania and Bulgaria would be allowed to join the EU?

Of course, they were wrong and in fact very few came to our shores, most of those who chose to leave, remaining in countries far closer to home.

Although the article is from 2013, I shouldn't think the trend is much different today.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2013/12/what-britain-forgets


Tom

 

[anotherkiwi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_unemployment_rate

 

[anotherkiwi]

Them's the rules. It was the same for everyone. She could have been the president under exactly the same set of circumstances, if she had won. But she didn't win. She lost.

I agree she lost. But not to Donald as you said. She beat him by nearly 3 million votes.

 

[Danidl]

I think Blair was pretty factual in his speech, the BBC did a fact check on his claims and it seems that brexit will affect around 82,000 EU citizens coming here without a job offer each year and I guess, we have to support with benefits.
I think the figure is significant enough.

Hang on a moment. All EU citizens are free to move throughout the EU It is one of the four freedoms. Many EU citizens follow their loved ones to other countries without a job offer. Many local type jobs do not advertise internationally, and people migrate with the reasonable expectation that they, as EU citizens might acquire a job in short order. The only assumption you make, and I believe it unfounded, is that EU citizens can immediately go onto dole . There are waiting lists for that.
The only service that they might absorb would be health, were they to become acutely ill orsuffer an accident. In which case the EU e111 scheme would take over and their original country would be required to reimburse the UK

 

[tillson]

3 million EU citizens in the UK.

UK unemployment fell by 37,000 to 1.6 million in the three months to September, hitting an 11-year low.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37997713

So if the EU citizens leave, we're short 1.4 million people to fill those spaces in jobs.

We're also expecting the current UK unemployed to suddenly be qualified to do these job?

I don't think your idea adds up does it?

That unemployment figure is fudged and you know it. Hidden are teenagers on non-courses at colleges and other such warehousing enterprises.

Strip all of that away and you suddenly have a pool of labour.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

That unemployment figure is fudged and you know it. Hidden are teenagers on non-courses at colleges and other such warehousing enterprises.

Strip all of that away and you suddenly have a pool of labour.

agreed there is a pool of labour, no arguement on that one.

However as said above... the fact you think leaving the EU will suddenly motivate this pool of labour to go into training to get the high paid jobs, or get dirty to do the low paid ones is what I'm struggling to comprehend.

The care home opposite our offices is desperate for staff, DESPERATE. Huddersfield has some unemployed... They won't do the work, or the shifts, Brexit won't change that.

 

[Danidl]

That unemployment figure is fudged and you know it. Hidden are teenagers on non-courses at colleges and other such warehousing enterprises.

Strip all of that away and you suddenly have a pool of labour.

...Of course you do. And remove all that bogus child safety legislation and secondary school time and you will create a larger pool of young willing labour , just the right size to go up chimneys , down mines , thin turnips etc