Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

As I replied to you long ago, no India does not have that potential.

Firstly we have no chance of competing with their low cost economy in the supply of manufactured goods.

Secondly 80% of our exports are of services, but India supplies us with services far cheaper than we can supply them for ourselves.
.

So where is your potential flecc if we stay ??? EU, uk and trade in general simply can not continue as is....
Your argument that things are fine as are is way more unrealistic than mine. We have a stagnant economy ( FTSE has climbed purely because of lower pound) In actual fact its been around this for at least 10 years. We have a terrible trade deficit, the country is failing as it is but eu is failing faster , with same stagnation but worse unemployment. ( Spanish youth unemployment worst in world)
So answer this flecc, if we stay as you wish, where are our needed trade deals coming from ? What will foster growth ? You ask throughout where we are going if we leave but its just as essential to grow our economy if we stay, but remainers have no answers to that...just more of same. Stagnation , trade deficit,growing unemployment, and more restrictions each and every year.
I just dont get it. Our economy is failing, the NHS has a billion pound deficit this year, education in a mess, growing social unrest but you remainers want more of same. Smell the roses flecc. The eu is broken. It and us are not working, literally in some cases. We can live in denial ,pretend its fine or we can do something.

Answer these two questions

What new trade deals are coming our way within eu ?

And you still have bot reconciled the irony of your stance re Greece. You insist you want to be a trade partner with them within eu but refuse any investment there.How on earth does that work flecc. Perhaps as long as its somebody elses money invested, not yours ? That really is idealism over realism.
If you want to be in the eu you must want to invest in all its members. That's the whole point, and its exactly why the eu must fail. You would happily invest in Germany because you feel guaranteed a return, but poor old Greece,,Spain,Portugal...no chance. They can have charity. Its exactly why the massive experiment of eu is doomed. Human nature, even yours flecc, and I suspect you are amongst the most moral posting.

 

[oldgroaner]

Absolute utter nonsense...every single word.
At start of WW2 the doom merchants said within a month of bombing civil order would break down, it didn't in 5 years of it. They said for every ton of bombs dropped 50 people would die, it was actually around a tenth of that. When we came out if ERM the same types predicted massive recession. It didn't happen. When we decided against adopting euro such as yourself predicted catastrophe. In 80's the negative types drummed along by both media and rock stars told us we,d be dying in droves from AIDS. Millions were spent on units at all hospitals that eventually realised it was nonsense.

You and I are not economists OG , not even poor ones. So how on earth you can make such catastrophic negative predictions over course of 11,000 posts defies any kind of sense or logic. King summed this whole situation up, we will come out of eu and in ten years time think it was all a storm in a tea cup.
1 in 10 people world wide live in eu. We are perhaps loosing some trade with 10% of world to get unlimited access to the other 90%..
Trouble is there is just so much BS from folk with vested interest to stay and closed insular minds.
If we stay it will be amongst biggest lost opportunities this country had ever had.

Can you really be as simple minded as you appear?
Ranting on about the second World War ? what next.
Try really hard to understand
". King summed this whole situation up, we will come out of eu and in ten years time think it was all a storm in a tea cup."

The vote was for change for the better, not more of the same.
It was a protest against the way the Country is being Run.
This constitutes a last chance for peaceful change, not just a slide downhill.
We both know that there will not be a change for the better, at the very best things will be worse to some degree.
This will not satisfy the anger of the people with the way things are going, and they have been treated.
For crying out loud, when will you understand what is happening?

 

[flecc]

So where is your potential flecc if we stay ???
Your argument that things are fine as are as way more unrealistic than mine.

I don't have that argument, things certainly aren't fine as they are.

But if we can't do better within, when Germany with exactly the same EU rules does so well, how are we likely to do better when outside on our own as a little guy among the big boys?

Hence the argument I made to you long ago. If we can do so well, lets prove it while within the protection of the EU. Germany and some other northern EU nations show that is perfectly possible. Then if successful we can cast off the mooring rope and sail away into a known successful future. Why gamble when we can aim for a dead cert?
.

 

[Zlatan]

I don't have that argument, things certainly aren't fine as they are.

But if we can't do better within, when Germany with exactly the same EU rules does so well, how are we likely to do better when outside on our own as a little guy among the big boys?

Hence the argument I made to you long ago. If we can do so well, lets prove it while within the protection of the EU. Germany and some other northern EU nations show that is perfectly possible. Then if successful we can cast off the mooring rope and sail away into a known successful future. Why gamble when we can aim for a dead cert?
.

Because our success would be at the benefit of perhaps 70% of the eu, the places by your own admission you have no desire to invest in, but invest in them we must inspite of all the problems those countries display ( again by your own admission) of corruption etc etc...

If UK and EU were shining lights of success with little civil unrest, minimal unemployment, good health care, good education, good social care and growing secure wealth I could understand all remainers views...but we have none of those and eu as a whole has even less. So what's the attraction ?
You like trade deficits, failing health service, under achieving education system, massive wealth disparity. Where are the great achievements of our eu ? Luxembourg and Germany , to the cost of rest of eu..Brilliant.

 

[gray198]

It is difficult to see where our migrant reductions are going to come from....David Davis has said that we will still need the low skilled migrants from Eastern Europe and the NHS has admitted it needs more immigrants not less....we just dont have the people to fill these roles in the UK.
KudosDave

the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration and how will our health service cope type drivel. It has never been about stopping migration. Merely about having the ability to control it.

 

[flecc]

Because our success would be at the benefit of perhaps 70% of the eu, the places by your own admission you have no desire to invest in, but invest in them we must inspite of all the problems those countries display ( again by your own admission) of corruption etc etc...

If UK and EU were shining lights of success with little civil unrest, minimal unemployment, good health care, good education, good social care and growing secure wealth I could understand all remainers views...but we have none of those and eu as a whole has even less. So what's the attraction ?

I merely posted that since Germany is successful in the EU, so can we be. That we aren't is a measure of our failure, not a measure of an EU failure.

Your waffling in circles doesn't alter that fact.

You like trade deficits, failing health service, under achieving education system, massive wealth disparity.

Resorting to lies again. No I don't like these, nor have I ever posted that I do.

Nor does this lie make any sense, since all those could be as bad or far worse outside the EU, since all have been caused by our governments and not by the EU.
.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration and how will our health service cope type drivel. It has never been about stopping migration. Merely about having the ability to control it.

ok, so find me some proof that we can't currently control it? Because you do realise we can currently control it don't you......

 

[oldgroaner]

the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration and how will our health service cope type drivel. It has never been about stopping migration. Merely about having the ability to control it.

Perhaps you can site some evidence where the remain side has made that assertion?
I googled
"remain side claims that leave side wants to stop immigration"
Not a single response they all mentioned things like
"Will not stop, or will not solve"
The truth is not
"the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration

The truth actually is that the leave side lied in saying that the Remain side had said that!
And as I asserted earlier the Government has said it will NOT stop the flow of immigrants into low paid and service jobs,, how do you square that with this?

I just took part in a Telegraph poll on the subject and 44% who voted leave expected the immigration level to FALL

You have been peddling another Fake Truth haven't you?

 

[oldgroaner]

Because our success would be at the benefit of perhaps 70% of the eu, the places by your own admission you have no desire to invest in, but invest in them we must inspite of all the problems those countries display ( again by your own admission) of corruption etc etc...

If UK and EU were shining lights of success with little civil unrest, minimal unemployment, good health care, good education, good social care and growing secure wealth I could understand all remainers views...but we have none of those and eu as a whole has even less. So what's the attraction ?
You like trade deficits, failing health service, under achieving education system, massive wealth disparity. Where are the great achievements of our eu ? Luxembourg and Germany , to the cost of rest of eu..Brilliant.

And now you want to make matters worse by handing all power to the very idiots that have run the country down in the hope that they have changed?
How idiotic!

 

[gray198]

ok, so find me some proof that we can't currently control it? Because you do realise we can currently control it don't you......

if we can control it why are people sleeping in Marble Arch and some of the parks in London

 

[anotherkiwi]

When I last looked PSA, a French company, is up for buying the European branch of GM. Shouldn't a UK company be taking over control of Vauxhall? I am having trouble understanding your industrial policy post brexit vote... PSA director is meeting with the wicked witch to talk about the future of the UK factories, maybe the director of Nissan, another French controlled company, will fill him in with what he can ask for...

For a country on the rocks French auto industry seems to be doing OK. Oh and didn't the Italians buy Chrysler a while back too?

 

[oldgroaner]

if we can control it why are people sleeping in Marble Arch and some of the parks in London

because the Government has failed to exercise the power that it already has.
What is your next question?

 

[Zlatan]

And now you want to make matters worse by handing all power to the very idiots that have run the country down in the hope that they have changed?
How idiotic!

The tories have been in power a few years now and as it stands likely to be so for tears to come , its another issue . They already have and had power , the referendum is simply a means for country to tell them to do something, not change who is in power, which is obvious to anyone with even half a brain. We have a general election to change the government OG.
Abd you haven't answered my question. What do you suggest putting in place ( if we stay) to get out of the mess country is in at moment.(.pre referendum ) ie ) how are you going to stop economy stagnating and generate enough revenue to pay for all the failing services ..and the eu .
Where are the new trade deals we need if we stay ?? As we are its impossible...

 

[oldgroaner]

Abd you haven't answered by question. What do you suggest putting un place ( if we stay) ti get out of the mess country is in at moment..pre referendum ..ie ) how are you going to stop ecibony stagnating and generate enough revenue to pay for all the failing services ..and the eu .

Have you been drinking? that is, even by your standards incoherent.
Here you are then a pipe dream you can laugh at and ridicule.
As I mentioned in the past we need to review the whole system of Government we have and a good start would be to insist that all Governments are coalitions, not merely formed of the numerically strongest party.
The notion of placing all power into a faction rather than the whole Parliament is undemocratic.
On the economy, we need to reverse the de-industrialisation of the country with automated factories, reducing the need for work and releasing the population into more worthwhile pursuits such as science, the arts and sport than condemning them to a life of drudgery.
And we need to form the United States of Europe as a start towards a Future world wide Government.
And most important of all we need to get rid of speculators and rip off artists who invest in slave labour in the far east and damaging the environment for a profit.
Needless to say none of this will happen, but laugh any way.

 

[Danidl]

Have you been drinking? that is, even by your standards incoherent.
Here you are then a pipe dream you can laugh at and ridicule.
As I mentioned in the past we need to review the whole system of Government we have and a good start would be to insist that all Governments are coalitions, not merely formed of the numerically strongest party.
The notion of placing all power into a faction rather than the whole Parliament is undemocratic.
On the economy, we need to reverse the de-industrialisation of the country with automated factories, reducing the need for work and releasing the population into more worthwhile pursuits such as science, the arts and sport than condemning them to a life of drudgery.
And we need to form the United States of Europe as a start towards a Future world wide Government.
And most important of all we need to get rid of speculators and rip off artists who invest in slave labour in the far east and damaging the environment for a profit.
Needless to say none of this will happen, but laugh any way.

... Predictive text, where would you leave it.....

 

[Danidl]

The tories have been in power a few years now and as it stands likely to be so for tears to come , its another issue . They already have and had power , the referendum is simply a means for country to tell them to do something, not change who is in power, which is obvious to anyone with even half a brain. We have a general election to change the government OG.
Abd you haven't answered my question. What do you suggest putting in place ( if we stay) to get out of the mess country is in at moment.(.pre referendum ) ie ) how are you going to stop economy stagnating and generate enough revenue to pay for all the failing services ..and the eu .
Where are the new trade deals we need if we stay ?? As we are its impossible...

.. That's a lovely pun.. the Tories being here for tears to come. Lovely

 

[Kudoscycles]

the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration and how will our health service cope type drivel. It has never been about stopping migration. Merely about having the ability to control it.

But Theresa May has had 6 years at the home office to legally control non EU migration and failed miserably so why should those who have a wish post Brexit to control it,have any more confidence in her ability to do so.
Every question to this government seems to be making special cases for every immigrant.
The farmers say they cant do without the EU migrants,so the government say its ok provided they have a job to come to.....most have,so no change there.
The NHS is desperate for trained staff,my local hospital is desperate for staff,it seems mostly Indians.....we need these people,so no change there.
The City of London needs the highly qualified personnel,the banks have been told they are a special case....they are needed,so no change there.
The universities and research institutes are very short of trained personnel,so no change there.
The hospitality industry is heavily manned by EU migrants....Brits don't want to do most of these jobs....so no change there.
Perhaps someone will tell me who are the migrants we don't need?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration and how will our health service cope type drivel. It has never been about stopping migration. Merely about having the ability to control it.

The message that migrants are not welcome here is getting through to them,so it wont be long before we will be going out to India,Spain,the Philippines saying sorry about our current racist and xenophobic attitudes and have an employment drive to get them back.
All the hospitals and care homes in my area (East Kent) have signs outside desperate for staff,where are we going to get the staff?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

For a country on the rocks French auto industry seems to be doing OK. Oh and didn't the Italians buy Chrysler a while back too?

FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) is actually registered as a Dutch company but controlled by the Italians. For tax purposes its head office is based in London. A typical globalisation setup!

Few people know that at one time from the late 1960s into the 1970s, Chrysler were effectively a French car company, since they'd been merged with French car maker Simca and the UK's failed Rootes Group. That resulted in the Chrysler 180, a mainstream saloon rival to the major car makers offerings. I owned a 180 for a few years, great car which was decades ahead of its time with such as disc brakes all round, revolutionary in the 1960s.. They were eventually sold to PSA in 1978, but later were revived in the USA:

 

[Zlatan]

.. That's a lovely pun.. the Tories being here for tears to come. Lovely

I,d claim I did it on purpose but it was a typo, went back to correct and thought it had a ring to it...