Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I reckon he is simply running a political lobby.

 

[Danidl]

They don't even have to be mischievous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-must-get-second-brexit-act-through-parliament-after-eu-negotiations-lawyers-conclude-a7586506.html

“The Opinion adds that the UK’s constitutional arrangements for Article 50 purposes mean that notification will effectively be conditional on Parliament subsequently authorising the UK’s exit from the EU and that, under EU law, there are very strong arguments that, if Parliament decided to reject the available terms of withdrawal two years from now, the notification could be unilaterally revoked by the UK.”

... Interesting , these are learned competent men, but what are these arguments under EU law which supercede a simple reading of article 50.
The UK would be a supplicant to the ECJ, the only body competent to adjudicate.
It would be arguing that it did not really mean what it said, when in full command of its faculties, and having taken an opportunity to debate it in both houses of its parliament it initiated the process. Sounds like a recipe for success
Again once article 50 is triggered the UK ceases to be in control. It become dependent on the goodwill of other nations.

 

[Woosh]

The only way brexit can be reversed is to dethrone Mr Corbyn and it has to be done very soon.

 

[gray198]

Yes, it's a situation well understood by both sides. Bribery to get business is illegal, and when discovered costs the guilty party, as Rolls Royce has now found out with a £650 millions fine. But the loophole has long been foreign aid, given on hidden understandings about where the money is spent, with those co-operating rewarded with their cut.

So of course much of the money comes back home as payments for our exports, and our true outlay on "aid" is much smaller. No-one is going to change this system which works so well for many "aid" giving countries, keeping friends onside and ensuring much of the money comes back home anyway.

We do it with all the countries we give to. The American do it, for example huge sums for rebuilding Iraq after they'd destroyed it, but the rebuilding contracts awarded to US firms. The Chinese do a variant in African countries, in return getting Africa's mineral resources at especially low prices.
.

So it's just a big slush fund disguised as aid

 

[Danidl]

The only way brexit can be reversed is to dethrone Mr Corbyn and it has to be done very soon.

I have not and will not comment on the internal politics or personalities of your State. Suffice only that it remains puzzling why an opposition has not opposed.

 

[gray198]

I have no idea what the figure is these days but I shall accept that you have found this number from a respectable source 'gray198'. Perhaps unusually for me, I agree with you entirely that the foreign aid supplied by the UK government from tax receipts is grossly more than necessary to reflect the fact that we care about places and peoples elsewhere on the planet.

When we were a wealthy, productive nation it may have been the thing to do, particularly as we were then also a highly respected and generous nation. Sadly, that is no longer the case and I take the view that charity begins at home. Ergo, let's get our own house in order and sort the NHS, the potholes and all the infrastructure that has been neglected for years.

Tom

Oldtom I don't think anyone would reasonably complain if it was felt the aid was genuinely helping people who are not so fortunate as us, but it seems to me that a whole industry has grown up around it and some people are getting very rich from it

 

[gray198]

I,m wrong about Tony Blair OG ? Or that he is championing remain ??? Where is the lie in that ??

Just ask yourself why ?
Either he sees profit and power in it ?
Or He,s pushing support away from remain ?
I suspect the latter...somebody is paying him and the BBC are biased enough to give him a platform in hope remain gains support when infact he is the most despised ( what is he these days) politician probably in the world.( ok probably second)

Wasn't Blair the guy who promised 2 referendums and changed his mind. A man not to be trusted

 

[flecc]

So it's just a big slush fund disguised as aid

Yes. During the cold war foreign "aid" was also recognised as a weapon, the USSR and the West competing to gain the most countries on their side.
.

 

[Danidl]

Old-timer I don't think anyone would reasonably complain if it was felt the aid was genuinely helping people who are not so fortunate as us, but it seems to me that a whole industry has grown up around it and some people are getting very rich from it

... Plus ca change...
Genuine people , animals , habitat s are all assisted, but at much greater cost than necessary. We have had scandal s here in Ireland about the salaries paid to the CEOs of legal charities being out of any proportion to their worth

 

[oldtom]

Oldtom I don't think anyone would reasonably complain if it was felt the aid was genuinely helping people who are not so fortunate as us, but it seems to me that a whole industry has grown up around it and some people are getting very rich from it

Blimey! It seems as though we do share some views - just don't get me started on charity shops for similar reasons to those you have just described!

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

The only way brexit can be reversed is to dethrone Mr Corbyn and it has to be done very soon.

Do you think Blair is thinking that way? I think he knows his political career ( in UK) is finished but he,s not called Teflon Tony for nothing..

 

[oldtom]

I reckon he is simply running a political lobby.

For once you have said something that I may not disagree with. I think he's dipping a toe in the water to see how cold it is before perhaps entering mainstream politics again doing that trick that Jesus is supposed to have done after three days.

I wonder if Rupert Murdoch is still backing him and possibly hoping to bend the political spectrum again because he dislikes May......or just for fun, because he can?

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I don't think he will return to the Commons, but play the King maker.
Kill Corbyn is his mission.
Wait for his comments next Friday after the conservatives bag Copeland and Ukip bag Stokes.

 

[oldtom]

What does hypocrisy look like? I think this is as good an example as any:



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Secondly, speaking for leavers I know, and the ones commenting on here, when they dare, I think feeling is if parliament now has decision, as long as its debated properly with none of the BS ( from both sides) I,d stand be decision they arrive at democratically and support ot either way.

When you haven't got a mind of your own, no doubt going with the flow is an easy way out.

 

[Zlatan]

It doesn't actually say on bus to spend the £350kk on nhs, but agreed its there for folk to make the connection.

You defending Blair now ? Be careful ,if he snuffs a chance of regaining power he,ll be back..

 

[oldgroaner]

I,m wrong about Tony Blair OG ? Or that he is championing remain ??? Where is the lie in that ??

Just ask yourself why ?
Either he sees profit and power in it ?
Or He,s pushing support away from remain ?
I suspect the latter...somebody is paying him and the BBC are biased enough to give him a platform in hope remain gains support when infact he is the most despised ( what is he these days) politician probably in the world.( ok probably second)

Is your tinfoil hat dropping down over your eyes, or do you really believe your own conspiracy theories?
once again you are changing your argument from minute to minute aren't you.

Do you need telling yet again that none of us have time for Blair, or do you prefer to continue pretending that remain supporters are fans of his?

Or have you dropped that nonsense in favour of your new childish novelty
"I suspect the latter...somebody is paying him and the BBC are biased enough to give him a platform in hope remain gains support "

And now you are so sure that the leave vote is solid are you?
Since you are prepared to let parliament make up your mind for you , surely you don't give a damn what happens do you?
You just want to argue about it as always.

 

[Woosh]

let's be brutally honest about this, remainers need Blair. You guys don't have to love him, only do as he says. He has the money and the skills to remove Corbyn who destroyed his beloved New Labour. As long as Corbyn is the leader of the opposition, nobody is opposing Mrs May and the gang of IDS.

 

[Danidl]

I think you are wrong with that ( leavers frightened decision will be reversed)
Firstly , I don't think it will be reversed. All these folk changing minds are either appeasement for pestering ( or is it festering) remainers..ie) folk say to polls one thing and in reality they think completely the opposite. ( as happened originally)

"Secondly, speaking for leavers I know, and the ones commenting on here, when they dare, I think feeling is if parliament now has decision, as long as its debated properly with none of the BS ( from both sides) I,d stand be decision they arrive at democratically and support ot either way."

At moment with the likes of Blair ( who should be locked up and not given a bloody great soap box by media, especially BBC) and all the vociferous remainers going on and on and on it does give impression country has changed its mind, which it certainly had not.
As ffor KTM I think he,s prompting me to come back into business , might get in touch with KTM and suggest they might do better with an importer with rather more positive attitude and less time to say same things over and over and over again on here...for how many pages ?? For an audience of a dozen or so ??
Do you bike importers have so much time to waste ??

Secondly, speaking for leavers I know, and the ones commenting on here, when they dare, I think feeling is if parliament now has decision, as long as its debated properly with none of the BS ( from both sides) I,d stand be decision they arrive at democratically and support ot either way.

The only problem here is that your parliament squandered it's opportunity to debate the substantial issue . Whether it was a good or bad idea to be in the EU and instead wasted it's time on peripheral issues based on the mechanisms by which it would leave and who would be left behind.

 

[Wicky]

So basically the money we borrow to send to these poor countries does nothing for the people it's supposed to help. Surely a better way could be found. Can we afford this money when under such pressure in this country??

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/23/mi6-spain-200m-bribes-ww2