Brexit, for once some facts.

[shemozzle999]

The JJDO blog provides us with a timely reminder of the qualities of another liar as portrayed in this snapshot from a by-election in B-liar's constituency.

A liar and major war criminal by the standards others have been judged yet still allowed to walk the streets. A disgrace to humanity!

View attachment 17817

Tom

More relevant would be his address after winning his seat in the 1983 election when Labour campaigned under a manifesto promise to leave the EEC within the term of office if elected.

Tony Blair’s election address to his Sedgefield constituents read:

“We’ll negotiate a withdrawal from the EEC which has drained our natural resources and destroyed jobs”

Source: http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/history-of-the-cib/

Campaigning since 1969!

 

[oldtom]

so when someone disagrees with you, they are fools and you are not?

Not at all! When someone talks absolute nonsense, which you do repeatedly, then I tend to react to that - it has nothing to do with whether or not anyone agrees with my view.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Not at all!

Pray tell - who disagreed with you and is not a fool?

 

[oldtom]

Really then how do you square that with the fact that the Brexit voters amount to only 25% of the population?
Let me remind you it was a vote out of the blue involving a pack of lying politicians and a Public that trusted them as they were accustomed to being lied to all their lives.
Add to that the Public had to a very large extent no idea of what this is likely to cost them and still doesn't to this day.

OG, I have read and re-read those three short sentences from you. I can't see any lies or any misrepresentation of facts yet a troll finds something with which to disagree! Am I missing something?

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

I forgot one Woosh, he calls folk trolls for disagreeing with other folk , not even his posts.
Tom
You don't realise that attitudes such as yours, and Blairs condescending yet contradictory, stance merely make people more intent in sticking to their opinions.
Not sure how you come to terms with singing from same hymn sheet as Blair, surely that tells you something..

I really think Blair is a secret leaver, its the old Blair Rabbit story, " please don't throw me in the mullberry bush"...

 

[oldtom]

I rather like this retort, supplied via 'The Poke' in regard to Guardian economics editor, Phillip Inman's assessment of pensioner incomes.

First, here is Inman's piece:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/13/rich-pensioners-tax


Here is the response:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/02/17/guardian-letter-brilliant-takedown-whiny-millennials-grumpy-baby-boomer/

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Really then how do you square that with the fact that the Brexit voters amount to only 25% of the population?
Let me remind you it was a vote out of the blue involving a pack of lying politicians and a Public that trusted them as they were accustomed to being lied to all their lives.
Add to that the Public had to a very large extent no idea of what this is likely to cost them and still doesn't to this day.

When you reduce a complex set of issues to a simple yes/no, there's bound to be confusion nd ignorance. You can't blame people for not spending enough time to fact check everything.
Parliament is in the driving seat now. Apparently, lawyers think that brexit can be reversed by parliament and another act is needed to pass the final deal.

 

[flecc]

I rather like this retort, supplied via 'The Poke' in regard to Guardian economics editor, Phillip Inman's assessment of pensioner incomes.

First, here is Inman's piece:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/13/rich-pensioners-tax


Here is the response:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/02/17/guardian-letter-brilliant-takedown-whiny-millennials-grumpy-baby-boomer/

Tom

Inman is wide of the target anyway. There is a pension problem, but it's not one of amounts, which have been earned, promised and are owed. The only problem is pensioner longevity, and taxes won't solve that, unless punitive enough to kill them off.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Inman is wide of the target anyway. There is a pension problem, but it's not one of amounts, which have been earned, promised and are owed. The only problem is pensioner longevity, and taxes won't solve that, unless punitive enough to kill them off.
.

No need for death by taxation, just de-fund the NHS... Oh wait a minute...

 

[Kudoscycles]

Fools , scum, xenophobes or racist..Tom throws them all about..
You are wasting your time on here Woosh...the usual suspects shout any reasonable voice down...

Amazes me that remainers don't see Tony Blair for what he is. Complete and utter political prostituute..ruined labour, killed thousands, helped create ISIS, probably involved in murder of Dr Kelly...but he shouts " leave" and he gets support..Fact is he,s been wheeled out to ridicule the remain campaign..Folk from his own constituency said he was a Pratt...only support he has is a few misguided fools on here

I think you mean he shouts 'Remain' and gets support. I am no lover of Tony Blair but he seems to be the only articulate person who is speaking for the Remainers. I thought Boris was pathetic suggesting to turn Blair off the TV,suggesting that he is frightened that Blair may be listened to by Leavers who are changing their minds.
This government and all Leavers are frightened that Brexit may be reversed when it's true cost starts to become apparent. But Leavers don't discuss the merits of Brexit they resort to shouting down anyone who disagrees with the direction we are heading,they want it concluded as quick as possible just in case too many start questioning the whole idea. Tony Blair is dangerous to Leavers,his speech was well written and delivered,it was a breath of fresh air against the Leave arguments,that have no traction to my eyes.....when a Leaver tells me what we are going to achieve post Brexit then I will listen and consider but that never happens.
Theresa May tells us what the mechanism is,but never explains the rewards.
Tony Blair,don't shoot the messenger,he is delivering an important message that we should all consider even if we disagree with him.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I only want to go back to pre-single market (1/1/1993)
I had a thriving business before the open border single market invited the Chinese to set up pan-European distribution in the Benelux. Back then, I was selling to the Belelux and Germany. After 1993, I slowly and steadily became their buyer.
I worked a few years in Cambridge 1989-1992. Back then, Cambridge uni led the world in computing. There were many opportunities, not just flogging Chinese motherboards and Samsung memory chips. There were a lot of us small businesses in the Cambridge Science Park. These small companies needed protection and still do.
Open border policy is good after when 99% of your competitors have been eliminated. Well, that's the impression I got after talking with my son who works on blockchain technology last Tuesday.

Woosh....you seem very down about trading in general. We both run businesses that are supported by other businesses,I would be very poor if I had to rely solely on my e-bike business,let's be honest the UK market is saturated with small e-bike suppliers,chasing a small market,mostly fuelled by the Chinese.
I did try to sell Kudos to Holland,doing a few shows in Holland, but it became obvious that their higher volume market is very mature and the Dutch are quite loyal to their own brands,even if those brands start life in China.
I accept that UK customers have such a wide choice of bikes that they can buy a bike which exactly appeals,so it's necessary to provide something different,maybe that can be just cheap. I have stopped pushing the Kudos brand through shows,it sells a couple of bikes but is not cost effective. I accept that customers will occasionally find a Kudos bike that is ideal for them,but also accept that an alternative bike may be more suitable,it's not a product that you can rely on paying the mortgage.
On my core Motorsport business,Brexit is already making me look at products which primarily are aimed at the UK market,the EU being a bonus. Unfortunately that means taking sales from some of the smaller companies,In this respect Brexit will not be good for smaller companies.....the combination of higher business rates,more difficult trading conditions,minimum wages,workplace pensions etc is going to make it very difficult for independent traders,especially on the high street.
KudosDave

 

[gray198]

No need for death by taxation, just de-fund the NHS... Oh wait a minute...

Or stop sending 14billion abroad in foreign aid!!!

 

[Woosh]

I think you mean he shouts 'Remain' and gets support.

so he should. That does not give him the right to call me and other posters names.

 

[flecc]

Or stop sending 14billion abroad in foreign aid!!!

Except that it's not foreign aid, that is a misnomer.

In part it's defence expenditure, keeping countries on our side.

Otherwise it's to go into the recipient countries politicians and businessmens pockets to ensure we "win" contracts to export to them, usually arms.

The poor of those countries remain in poverty, often oppressed by the very arms that the "aid" money buys from us.
.

 

[Woosh]

a lot of that money is spent on keeping refugees in tent cities.

 

[Jimod]

Amazes me that remainers don't see Tony Blair for what he is.

I don't think it matters if you want to leave or remain, I'd hope everyone would see him for what he is. The independance voters up here and the remainers all over Britain must have cringed when he spoke. If Blair's on your side you'd probably change your vote.

I can't stand the man.

 

[gray198]

Except that it's not foreign aid, that is a misnomer.

In part it's defence expenditure, keeping countries on our side.

Otherwise it's to go into the recipient countries politicians and businessmens pockets to ensure we "win" contracts to export to them, usually arms.

The poor of those countries remain in poverty, often oppressed by the very arms that the "aid" money buys from us.
.

So basically the money we borrow to send to these poor countries does nothing for the people it's supposed to help. Surely a better way could be found. Can we afford this money when under such pressure in this country??

 

[Danidl]

I think you mean he shouts 'Remain' and gets support. I am no lover of Tony Blair but he seems to be the only articulate person who is speaking for the Remainers. I thought Boris was pathetic suggesting to turn Blair off the TV,suggesting that he is frightened that Blair may be listened to by Leavers who are changing their minds.
This government and all Leavers are frightened that Brexit may be reversed when it's true cost starts to become apparent. But Leavers don't discuss the merits of Brexit they resort to shouting down anyone who disagrees with the direction we are heading,they want it concluded as quick as possible just in case too many start questioning the whole idea. Tony Blair is dangerous to Leavers,his speech was well written and delivered,it was a breath of fresh air against the Leave arguments,that have no traction to my eyes.....when a Leaver tells me what we are going to achieve post Brexit then I will listen and consider but that never happens.
Theresa May tells us what the mechanism is,but never explains the rewards.
Tony Blair,don't shoot the messenger,he is delivering an important message that we should all consider even if we disagree with him.
KudosDave

I haven't identified any posts here which were supportive of Mr Blair as a person or for his role in supporting the USA middle East misadventures. Quite the contrary. But it cannot be denied that he is an orator.

 

[Danidl]

When you reduce a complex set of issues to a simple yes/no, there's bound to be confusion nd ignorance. You can't blame people for not spending enough time to fact check everything.
Parliament is in the driving seat now. Apparently, lawyers think that brexit can be reversed by parliament and another act is needed to pass the final deal.

... Well then those lawyers are delusional... Can they not also read?

 

[Woosh]

This government and all Leavers are frightened that Brexit may be reversed when it's true cost starts to become apparent. But Leavers don't discuss the merits of Brexit they resort to shouting down anyone who disagrees with the direction we are heading,they want it concluded as quick as possible just in case too many start questioning the whole idea.

I think Mrs May plans to trigger A50 before the French presidential election. Corbyn, on the other hand, wants it triggered as soon as possible. He said as much on June 24th. From that perspective, Blair seems a threat to Corbyn.
Boris is Boris, he skims on facts and usually uses humour for personality kills. The UK is still split in the middle, if there was another referendum, England would still vote for brexit, the rest may now want to remain. Chaos will still reign whichever way the net result is. If there should be another referendum, it would be much more meaningful to do that in two years when people know all the facts.