Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

there is nothing wrong with simple cross-border trading.
The rules of competition force local authorities to open up their bidding process to all of the EU. Before that, local authorities advertised locally and contact only people on their supplier lists.
You know as well as I do how local French businesses feel about that. Suppose your commune wants a new school. Would you like to see a local builder win the contract or another much further East?

 

[Kudoscycles]

I watched the Tony Blair speech on Sky today....I must say I agreed with every word he said,just a shame that it came from Tony Blair,
Blair was always a good orator,I think on the same level as Obama in the states. He made many good points that I am sure has May and Co. shouting 'traitor' from No 10.
The most important point is that about 80 members of parliament are managing by bully tactics to subdue the rest of the house,there must be 100's of Tories who are really unhappy the form Brexit is taking but are frightened to voice their views and nobody in the house is strong enough to harness those views....if you think my word 'bully' is too strong,look at the line of Tory whips who stood by the door of the voting lobby when the amendments were voted upon.
Blair also made the same point as myself that Brexit is so consuming this blinkered government that the normal job of governing the country in terms of NHS,Social Care,the prisons etc are going to pot.
Maybe the Lords will pass amendments to the Article 50 bill that will start to hold this right wing extreme government to account and embolden some in the house,other than Ken Clarke,to start expressing their true views.
The irony of all this is the very people who are going to be hit hardest by a hard Brexit are the most vociferous and vocal in favour of it....wake up 'man from Huddersfield' you are being stitched up by right wing Tories,surely you can see that???? You won,we lost but what have you won?
I find it difficult to write this.....well done Tony Blair.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Unfortunately for your theories I live in a trans-frontier zone and all public tenders in building are zapped up by either cheaper Spanish and even Portuguese building companies or the historical big building company who gets whatever it wants using big fat enveloppes slipped into the politicians pocket. Painters, plumbers, electricians, you name it, all from Spain. The local guys have had to adapt.

Before that big fat wads of cash were the rule. If you didn't have a family member who got on with the dominating companies you didn't get sub-contracting work. Now the playing field is slightly more even.

 

[Zlatan]

Never heard of David and Goliath? I have taken business from larger companies. I did it by providing best value for money, personalised answers to niche market questions, lower prices in one case because I didn't have the overheads the large competitor had... I even trained a competitor on specific machinery because he was supplying sub standard product and it was destroying the image of that machine.

Yep , I bet....
more like dead horse in his bed...made them an offer they couldn't refuse...or am I getting Islands confused...

 

[Kudoscycles]

there is nothing wrong with simple cross-border trading.
The rules of competition force local authorities to open up their bidding process to all of the EU. Before that, local authorities advertised locally and contact only people on their supplier lists.
You know as well as I do how local French businesses feel about that. Suppose your commune wants a new school. Would you like to see a local builder win the contract or another much further East?

Because of Brexit we are already seeing some of our EU customers looking more closely at China. They are still buying off the UK because they like the prices due to the weak £ and the smaller companies find the MOQ's (minimum order quantities) from China too much.
The biggest problem for me is the VAT fraudulent companies trading from Hong Kong ,selling on E-Bay and Amazon,it is hard to compete when the government takes 20% vat from honest companies but HMRC doesnt know how to stop those trading illegally.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

Now the playing field is slightly more even.

And the local guys still lose out.
Up to 1993, the EEC then functioned quite well. I am not unhappy at all if we could wind the clock back to then.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And the local guys still lose out.
Up to 1993, the EEC then functioned quite well. I am not unhappy at all if we could wind the clock back to then.

The problem is the guys who are not local to you, are actually local to someone

Using the bike shop anology... ChainReactionCycles are big on-line and killing many local bike shops... but they are someone's local bike shop, if you happen to live in Northern Ireland. Also they started out as a local bike shop, they are just doing it better than other local bike shops.

Your problem with competition is not going to away by shutting the border. Companies have worked out that taping into the Tender process and Cycle 2 Work contracts, insurance replacements schemes is big business. Look at what Wheelies have achived in the last 8 years. They have now been sold to Halfords... all started from a local bike shop that spotted the market for corning the insurance replacement sectors.

UK companies are currently winning tenders all over Europe, just like European companies can win them in the UK. If you close off the border, you'll punish more people than you reward. And you won't solve your problem, big UK business is still coming for the eBike market in the UK. You can't stop it!

 

[Woosh]

Let's say you have a limit over which local authorities have to open up to EU (don't be shy, let's call it international) competition.
Then the small guys still have a chance if the limit is high enough (eg £1m up). But no, the EU is pushing for one country, one market place.

 

[flecc]

But no, the EU is pushing for one country, one market place.

Why should local authorities have less choice and worse deals than consumers?

Globalisation brings more choice, better products and lower prices to the market, and councils, who are after all spending our money, should also have those benefits when buying.

Anything less costs us though council tax.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The problem is the guys who are not local to you, are actually local to someone

Using the bike shop anology... ChainReactionCycles are big on-line and killing many local bike shops... but they are someone's local bike shop, if you happen to live in Northern Ireland. Also they started out as a local bike shop, they are just doing it better than other local bike shops.

Your problem with competition is not going to away by shutting the border. Companies have worked out that taping into the Tender process and Cycle 2 Work contracts, insurance replacements schemes is big business. Look at what Wheelies have achived in the last 8 years. They have now been sold to Halfords... all started from a local bike shop that spotted the market for corning the insurance replacement sectors.

UK companies are currently winning tenders all over Europe, just like European companies can win them in the UK. If you close off the border, you'll punish more people than you reward. And you won't solve your problem, big UK business is still coming for the eBike market in the UK. You can't stop it!

The motor sport parts business used to have a small shop in every town...a customer walked into the shop,discussed his requirements. The owner then collated the goods together from several manufacturers and wholesalers,it may take 2 weeks to get it all together,there were probably 50 plus small traders.
Now there are 10 warehouse traders,supplying next day by courier,each has his strengths but customers expect fast one-stop shopping from all.
The small trader has to find a niche which is not covered by the bigger players.
The bicycle business is similar,it hasnt migrated to the e-bike business because the volumes are not large enough but it may be the future.
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Let's say you have a limit over which local authorities have to open up to EU (don't be shy, let's call it international) competition.
Then the small guys still have a chance if the limit is high enough (eg £1m up). But no, the EU is pushing for one country, one market place.

On that basis... why not restrict Southend Coucil to getting services to companies from within their Council area?

 

[Woosh]

If it's up to the people working for the Council, they would prefer to deal with the locals.
They are forced to advertise and have procedures to ensure that EU companies are treated same as locals.
Whose fault is that?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

If it's up to the people working for the Council, they would prefer to deal with the locals.
They are forced to advertise and have procedures to ensure that EU companies are treated same as locals.
Whose fault is that?

So why did you loose the tender again?? They are working with a local service centre, just with Dutch bikes. So not really that different to working with you with Chinese bikes is it??

You do realise that you are an EU company? or has that bypassed you? You can be competing for tenders all over Europe if you want.

Why should the council not have access to the best suppliers for their business? You are sourcing your eBikes from the Far East to meet your business needs, so why can't the council also look overseas. If you were forced to use only local suppliers how expensive would Woosh Bikes be??

 

[Woosh]

KTM, there is no need to go into specifics about this particular tender, it could have been local tomatoes against tomatoes grown some where else. The key aspect is who is the contractor.
You are trying to make the example I gave in the context of EU rules hurting local businesses into Woosh bikes against Dutch bikes.
I could have proposed to my council your bikes in this context, the issue remains the same. Should the tender be opened to anyone in the EU? My contention is, it should not if the council is happy with local bidders like before the Single Market rules 1993.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

KTM, there is no need to go into specifics about this particular tender, it could have been local tomatoes against tomatoes grown some where else. The key aspect is who is the contractor.
You are trying to make the example I gave in the context of EU rules hurting local businesses into Woosh bikes against Dutch bikes.
I could have proposed to my council your bikes in this context, the issue remains the same. Should the tender be opened to anyone in the EU? My contention is, it should not if the council is happy with local bidders like before the Single Market rules 1993.

Your saying that the council should not be allowed to use suppliers outside of the UK? Yes.

Why should they be forced to do that, when you're not forced to do the same?

I'm sure there are UK suppliers for most of the components on Woosh Bikes, but you're not forced to use them, so why should the tax payer funded council be in a worse position than you as a private company??

 

[Woosh]

No, you are twisting what I said.
The council should not be forced to advertise to the whole of the EU because of competition rules.
If my council sees fit to invite some companies in the EU to participate, then why should I have anything to say against the EU? That has always been the situation before 1993.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

No, you are twisting what I said.
The council should not be forced to advertise to the whole of the EU because of competition rules.
If my council sees fit to invite some companies in the EU to participate, then why should I have anything to say against the EU? That has always been the situation before 1993.

The council is doing what's best for the tax payers, by getting the best deal they can, why shouldn't they advertise to the widest possible audience??

 

[Woosh]

that why I think you don't understand why people voted to leave the EU.
There are always winners and losers.
The EU creates fewer winners than losers.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Yep , I bet....
more like dead horse in his bed...made them an offer they couldn't refuse...or am I getting Islands confused...

What islands? My business was in Nantes, France. There is an island in the middle of the Loire there?

 

[oldtom]

I'm bound to say I think the 'Woosh' position in this interminable discussion is simply ridiculous.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of tender processes, local businesses v foreign competition, and regardless of whether or not HMRC get to grips with illegal trading, eBay, Amazon and the Chinese trading sites are not going to go away.

Most people are canny enough nowadays to look on the internet before making not only small purchases but also major purchases including cars and homes. Unsurprisingly, internet business, both legal and illegal, has grown massively over recent years and shows no sign of abating.

It is a sad fact of life that local businesses and small family concerns unavoidably fall victim to this modern trading method but that's no different really from the strategy operated by our major supermarkets and petrol/diesel sellers and that has been the case for a good number of years now.

The evidence is there to be seen on almost every shopping parade in every town across the UK. Empty shops or short-term occupancy lets to nail bars, tattoo parlours, takeaway food outlets and the like are common everywhere.

I don't know the answer; I don't even know if there is an answer but I do know that we cannot just close our borders and imagine that the problem created by wider competition will simply go away. Whatever the rules are, we need to be able to compete in the marketplace and if we cannot do that and you want the reason, just look back to what the tories did to our steel, engineering, shipbuilding and construction industries plus all the ancillary feeder concerns which supplied those massive operations. Every other major European government supported their industries financially through the hard times of the late 60s, the 70s and early 80s because they knew exactly how important they were to the future. We sold ours to venture capitalists and now most of the major and essential UK businesses and utilities are foreign-owned. Now that economic folly is coming back to bite us!

If overseas companies decide to desert our British stars like Rolls Royce, BAE Systems, Lloyd's and the City of London trading houses, and there are viable alternatives, we haven't got much left to trade with and produce income.

I sincerely hope the Woosh business continues to trade through these tough times and goes from strength to strength but whingeing about the rules, agreed by 28 states, isn't productive.

Tom