Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Many of the 27 EU countries scarcely need the UK at all. In addition Germany has openly stated that they can accept the loss of their UK business and there's no doubt that's true.

So regardless of what the core EU enthusiasts want in the greater interest of the EU, if just some of the 27 won't play ball, we won't get a good deal since all 27 have to agree every step.
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No not exactly, majority voting will work if the EU negotiating team bring agreed proposals to the EU parliament. Unanamous agreement on variations would only become necessary if the UK wanted to vary the duration or even to step back . The article 50 and linked articles are very specific and simple, why have your MPs not read them?

 

[Danidl]

http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-negotiation-issues-worrying-the-european-parliament/

You can't be more European than the French and yet, because the EU pushes for political union at such a speed and depth that more than one out of three French now disagree.
Let's just wait until April, the landscape may be very different.
My contention is that the EU will need the UK a lot more than UK needing EU.

Whoosh just a number of points .. you cannot get more European than the British, comprised as they are of Celtic, Viking, Saxon, angles, Norman , Picts And last time I looked the UK seemed to be stuck somewhere on the European side of Ireland.

The UK leaving the EU will hurt the EU it leaves a gaping hole the North sea area , it damages our collective security and ease of markets, . The money it contributes will also be missed, but that is the least of the concerns.
Except for Ireland, the amount of trade by any other EU state with the UK is in the 10 to 20% range. Loss of that size of market is painful but not catastrophic, Ireland will fare as poorly as the UK , maybe worse.

 

[Danidl]

Intelligent people understand that! - unsurprisingly, those are the people who voted to remain in the EU and still believe that is the best future for the UK.

Tom

Be fair Tom, many who voted exit are also intelligent, but for any of a number of reasons including national pride (and prejudice), knowing that it might cost them in financial terms did so. My daughter and her husband voted for opposite sides and I am not prepared to consider either of them idiots

 

[Danidl]

that's the voting intention in the first round.
In the second round, it looks like Le Pen v Macron. Fillon is practically out of the race.
Le Pen will split the socialist and republican votes in the same way we saw in brexit.
Don't forget the Russian hackers and Wikileaks.
Imagine they find some dodgy stuff on Macron just before round two.

... I don't know where you are going with this. Are you applauding the notion that simplistic slogans and external hacking thus flustrating normal politics is to be encouraged . It worked once in the UK, twice in the USA but are the French likely to fall for the same a third time?

 

[Woosh]

Except for Ireland, the amount of trade by any other EU state with the UK is in the 10 to 20% range. Loss of that size of market is painful but not catastrophic, Ireland will fare as poorly as the UK , maybe worse.

Trade with the UK is affected by the devaluation of the Pound at the moment, Irish goods may appear temporarily expensive.
I don't think brexit will hurt future trade.

 

[Danidl]

But national companies are no different, they too move production to China etc. or opt to buy from there. Those like James Dyson for example, the EU didn't force him to move production. Companies like Brompton who hang on here at present are extremely rare and small in scale anyway.
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Dyson is an interesting case, he argued to maintain manufacturing in the UK until it was no longer feasible. When you are prototyping you need access to parts and people.. where was he to go to get small lengths of aluminium tubing quick access to plastic parts. When you have a multiplicity of small adjacent manufacturing plants you can get access to these parts. You had this in the Midlands but gave it up.

 

[Danidl]

Trade with the UK is affected by the devaluation of the Pound at the moment, Irish goods may appear temporarily expensive.
I don't think brexit will hurt future trade.

... Woosh, it has not even started yet. When there are lines of lorries outside my door seeking customs clearance to Newry, then it will start. (Poetic licence .. I'm not actually on the main road).
Barriers impact trade, that's what they are there for.

 

[oldgroaner]

Lord Nigel strikes again in the Daily Excess
"
Nigel Farage blames GERMANY for UK air pollution amid fears of a ‘£300million EU fine’
NIGEL Farage has blamed Germany for air pollution in British cities which could land the UK with a hefty EU fine."
Really Nigel?

Maybe we should blame the Acid Rain from the Norwegian Forest for the Smoke from Drax and Eggborough Power Stations?

Actually he is Blaming the VW scandal isn't he, when this situation applies to ALL Vehicles and Industry and Power Generation not just EU vehicles.

 

[Woosh]

It worked once in the UK, twice in the USA but are the French likely to fall for the same a third time?

Very possibly.
There is nothing to stop these tactics.

... Woosh, it has not even started yet. When there are lines of lorries outside my door seeking customs clearance to Newry, then it will start. (Poetic licence .. I'm not actually on the main road).
Barriers impact trade, that's what they are there for.

Look into details. What barriers can you think of?
It's not like the UK is going to stop buying Irish agricultural produce after brexit.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You know I can't be specific about that particular tender, I think it illustrates why half of the UK are fed up with the EU creating forever more market rules.

Firstly, its a massive exaggeration to think that all those who voted leave did so because of an understanding of EU market rules. I think it would only take me 10 seconds to prove that was wrong.

Also, you're insuating half the country voted leave, they didn't... its more like 1/4.

But back to your point....So you're saying EU Market rules prevented you from winning this tender against a Dutch firm, or as I suspect are you saying that EU marker rules opened you up to competition from this Dutch firm? That you think you'd have won if they had been barriers in the way of them tendering for a UK contract.

I'm not sure why you can't share the reasons you lost the tender, that isn't confidential in anyway is it?

So you're wanting a closed market to give you a better chance, local contracts for local people? So would you be happy to have lost the contract to a bike shop / brand from out of town, but in the UK, or just in England?

 

[Woosh]

are you saying that EU marker rules opened you up to competition from this Dutch firm? That you think you'd have won if they had been barriers in the way of them tendering for a UK contract.

That's correct.

I don't mind losing a supply and service contract to someone in the UK but it's sore to lose to a Dutch dealer.
I think the EU rules distort the process of tendering in favour of larger outsiders.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Dyson is an interesting case, he argued to maintain manufacturing in the UK until it was no longer feasible. When you are prototyping you need access to parts and people.. where was he to go to get small lengths of aluminium tubing quick access to plastic parts. When you have a multiplicity of small adjacent manufacturing plants you can get access to these parts. You had this in the Midlands but gave it up.

Have you seen the latest from Dyson... push Brexit hard, etc etc... then this week they confirmed they've opened a big new $410 million (£330/AU$540 million converted) research and development Technology Centre in Singapore..... Singapore (that's not in the UK is it??) (confirmed earlier this week. You couldn't make this up.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

you do realise how little sense this makes.

That's correct.

I don't mind losing a supply and service contract to someone in the UK but it's sore to lose to a Dutch dealer.
I think the EU rules distort the process of tendering in favour of larger outsiders.

So when you're talking to one person, you're saying there won't be barriers to Irish suppliers... see below

Look into details. What barriers can you think of?
It's not like the UK is going to stop buying Irish agricultural produce after brexit.

but you're expecting a post brexit UK to protect you from Dutch competition. If it did protect you from the Dutch, it would be by barriers that would also make Irish imports noncompetitive. By definition it would also make UK exports to the EU noncompetitive... so you'd potentially win your contract, but all EU exporters would struggle and all other UK imports would also have barries in their way so cost UK customers, be they councils or JAMS in the supermarket would be paying more for their eBikes or salad.

 

[oldgroaner]

Have you seen the latest from Dyson... push Brexit hard, etc etc... then this week they confirmed they've opened a big new $410 million (£330/AU$540 million converted) research and development Technology Centre in Singapore..... Singapore (that's not in the UK is it??) (confirmed earlier this week. You couldn't make this up.

Don't you just love this man?
"Sir James Dyson says businesses would be "mad to withhold investment plans" post Brexit.

As I said in an earlier post, they would be mad not to put their money somewhere else where a profit is guaranteed.
At least according to their short term logic looking for a quick profit.

Which is just what he did, regardless of how immoral, unpatriotic and antisocial (not to mention suicidal in the long run) this will prove to be.

The pillock should be stripped of his knighthood for industrial treachery, but then, he's only one of many, and we shall be seeing a lot more of this happening in the near future, won't we?

And the Engineering of Dyson products is poor, but their Marketing excellent to keep Brand loyalty for over priced products when they have a poor reliability record.
"
Dyson 'ranks last in reliability'

Dyson's famous vacuum cleaners are made in Malaysia
The Dyson vacuum cleaner - famous for its bagless technology - is the least reliable of all upright and cylinder brands, a consumer magazine has said.
A quarter of 5,100 upright vacuum cleaner owners surveyed by Which? failed to give their Dyson an all-clear on performance after six years' use.

Nearly a fifth of Dyson cylinder users also reported issues.

Despite the problems, Dyson owners remain the most likely to recommend the machine to a friend, Which? reported.
It goes to show people do not necessarily employ the brain for other than keeping their eyeballs falling into their skulls.
And they don't learn from experience either.
Though some might say they want others to suffer what they have rather than admit a mistake.
Now where have I encountered that sort of logic before?

 

[oldtom]

How will secession from the EU help improve this kind of tragic situation? Those who voted for 'Brexit', blaming all the ills of the UK on our EU membership because they were so thick they could not distinguish between socially-crippling, tory policies and EU membership benefits may well find this much closer to home soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/15/woman-mary-muldowney-died-after-three-hospitals-refused-to-admit-her-for-surgery

Tom

 

[Woosh]

but you're expecting a post brexit UK to protect you from Dutch competition. If it did protect you from the Dutch, it would be by barriers that would also make Irish imports noncompetitive. By definition it would also make UK exports to the EU noncompetitive... so you'd potentially win your contract, but all EU exporters would struggle and all other UK imports would also have barries in their way so cost UK customers, be they councils or JAMS in the supermarket would be paying more for their eBikes or salad.

The point is the EU regulations force all authorities to open their tendering to all EU and thus large, foreign competitors are favoured against smaller local businesses. A large Dutch dealer can be systematically more competitive on supply thus winning contracts and wiping the floor with me and you. Later, they subcontract the service to a local bike shop, creaming off the easy profit. I wonder how you would feel if it happens to you.
It's the systematic, hoovering aspect of EU policies favouring the larger companies that I object to.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The point is the EU regulations force all authorities to open their tendering to all EU and thus large, foreign competitors are favoured against smaller local businesses. A large Dutch dealer can be systematically more competitive on supply thus winning contracts and wiping the floor with me and you. Later, they subcontract the service to a local bike shop, creaming off the easy profit. I wonder how you would feel if it happens to you.
It's the systematic, hoovering aspect of EU policies favouring the larger companies that I object to.

yes, but that's just nonsense, if we're wanted to we have KTM's power and size and we could simply deal with all the councils direct from our UK HQ and easily crush all the local suppliers. We choose not to supply direct to councils etc etc, for a number of reasons... personally i believe the councils have a duty to look beyond the simple cost and look at what is best for their local community. So I think we're we have similar desires, but to blame the EU is again missing the point. Even if it was UK only for tenders, there are still companies bigger than yours who could beat you, you need to change your tendering process if you want to compete with the big guys, no matter where they are, and also stop blaming the EU for your failure.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The point is the EU regulations force all authorities to open their tendering to all EU and thus large, foreign competitors are favoured against smaller local businesses. A large Dutch dealer can be systematically more competitive on supply thus winning contracts and wiping the floor with me and you. Later, they subcontract the service to a local bike shop, creaming off the easy profit. I wonder how you would feel if it happens to you.
It's the systematic, hoovering aspect of EU policies favouring the larger companies that I object to.

I have won public tenders against large companies, I won by offering personalized services they couldn't offer. Public tenders require a little bit of cunning but it can be done.

 

[Woosh]

I have won public tenders against large companies, I won by offering personalized services they couldn't offer. Public tenders require a little bit of cunning but it can be done.

That's because you have something special to offer whereas to the paper pushers in our town halls, a bike is a bike is a bike right?

yes, but that's just nonsense, if we're wanted to we have KTM's power and size and we could simply deal with all the councils direct from our UK HQ and easily crush all the local suppliers. We choose not to supply direct to councils etc etc, for a number of reasons... .

You may have much higher ethics than the average bike dealers.

 

[flecc]

Dyson is an interesting case, he argued to maintain manufacturing in the UK until it was no longer feasible. When you are prototyping you need access to parts and people.. where was he to go to get small lengths of aluminium tubing quick access to plastic parts. When you have a multiplicity of small adjacent manufacturing plants you can get access to these parts. You had this in the Midlands but gave it up.

I think Dyson has always spoken nonsense in defence of his production transfer to the far east, see this post for example.
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