Slightly off topic, but I remember many years ago on Tomorrow's World they were showing an engine the size of a box of cornflakes which was supposedly very cheap efficient and easy to replace. Can't remember much more than that, except that it was never seen again. So was it a flight of fancy or did it exsist and was buried by the big manufacturers??
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I remember that too but was sure at the time that it was a flight of fancy. Those responsible for it subsequently refused to allow it's inputs and outputs to be measured, which would have proven its worth without revealing any secrets.
For two reasons I don't believe in conspiracy theories of manufacturers burying new technologies. First is that total security is impossible, truth always leaks out eventually. Second is that given the ruthlessness of business, one company will always break ranks and steal a march on the others.
.
Was it a ram air jet?
They are simple efficient and cheap. But you do need high speed to operate.
Thinkk that may have been the Sterling ( or is it Stirlng). There are a few ICE engines in development making big claims.
Hybrid
Imagine scenario of driving through Europe at 85 mph in any hybrid...( or 130 kmh)
Both systems would need to be in operation..infact totally negating the whole point of hybrid.
Cant see point of dragging a battery / electric motor when you are actually totally dependant on having an ICE to do work. It does not make any sense from any physics point of view. Yes short journeys , commencing with charged battery and hybrid simply extends range but in real world ( ie long journeys) you are simply carrying a battery/ motor around for nothing.
A car must be able to operate at a steady state. BMW and government ate conning us about Hybrids. It can not be as efficient at steady state, its simply introducing an other inefficiency ( albeit high one)
Take two cars on a 1000 mile drive. One a hybrid using small motor running all time to keep battery charged for inclines etc and another with just an efficient ICE the latter will always be more efficient.
How does introducing more weight, a charging system, a large electric motor into a car possibly make it more efficient. Simple fact is, it does not.
A car consumes so much energy pushing it through air and climbing hills. That energy in long journeys must be supplied by the ICE ( even on hybrid) . The Hybrid part simply introduces more weight, expense, inefficiency and expense. Thinking otherwise not taking account of the physics involved.
The only question is at what point do journeys become long? If you are always doing short journeys, perhaps Hybrid might compete..Read Clarkson, I know he,s a pain but he talks sense on this matter.
Last edited:
From the perspective of a "normal" car driver the problem is that the initial cost of such a car is far too high, and really if it wasn't for the fact that I tow a caravan all over the country. my purposes which are otherwise mundane would be to look for a cheap small petrol engined car such as a Skoda Citigo.
A pretty comprehensive answer that ticks all the boxes on cost, economy, performance and reliability without relying on costly batteries and electronics and faddy charging and fuel filling up regimes.
Speaking frankly I wouldn't touch an electric car even if it was given to me.
Too many compromises when there is an existing perfectly satisfactory answer to my transport needs, and it would still have the range to take me anywhere I wanted to go without limitation.
Mind you I have to confess that in that respect I may not be atypical, as when a teenager I used to make make the 17 hour 475 mile journey down to Penzance on a Vespa 125, and later the same journey somewhat quicker in a clapped out 850cc Mini.
To me range is every bit as important as all the other considerations, it was hell getting to Cornwall on the Vespa that did just over a Hundred miles on a tank of 2 stroke, but my 1.9 TDI Skoda Octavia when solo covers that distance easily on a tankful, and even towing a 15 foot Caravan will do 32mpg. and so cover three quarters of the distance before needing a refill
If the journey is just within the city boundary, unless the wife wants to be chauffeured I use the Ebike.
Quite frankly it's the fastest thing on wheels during the rush hour!
What difference will it make? they won't make the mistake of ASKING THE PUBLIC after what happened the last time, will they?
True in most parts, but not for a London commuting driver.
Daily congestion charge is £11.50 which for a typical 230 work days a year person is £2645 per annum. If they buy a middle of the range Nissan Leaf with the longer range 8 year warranty battery it will cost about £25,000 with a small discount. To offset that cost they have the following:
No congestion charge, saving £21,160 over the 8 years.
Circa £100 a year lower service cost, £800 over 8 years.
Fuel saving for a typical 7000 mile year driver over electric costs for 8 years = minimum £3500.
Free VED for e-cars saving around £150 a year so £1200 over 8 years.
So total saving over 8 years is at least £26,660, far more than the Leaf cost in the first place, making it a free car for such a driver.
Over time with increasing pollution and global warming worries bringing more punitive action against ICE, such scenarios will spread much wider, with cities hit first.
Meanwhile the Hybrid alternative will increasingly take over from pure ICE in other areas, both to save running costs and take advantage of preferential treatments.
.
That is quicker than I would have imagined but figures change, month by month. After the summer holiday period, we may have a better idea of where we are at.
Tom
The Stirling atmospheric engine is a no hoper, totally inadequate power to weight ratio and very inefficient.
I completely agree with you on long distances, pure ICE wins hands down.
But the vast majority of all car journeys and most of drivers mileages are short distance journeys well within battery range. The savings completely overwhelm the small inefficiency of carrying a battery etc on the odd long journeys, so for the great majority, hybrid saves some money and is also much cleaner overall.
.
The margin won't be enough either way, so there is no point asking the public.
The next government will make that choice for us.
Once again, 'The Canary' has published something that will be conveniently overlooked in most of the mainstream media. It shames the British people that our government can eschew its humanitarian responsibility in regard to refugees while smaller nations have taken in tens of thousands more than the UK.
The children involved are the human flotsam resulting directly from the decisions taken by Blair and Bush in regard to Iraq and Afghanistan while defending absolutely the illegal actions of Israel, committing genocide against the Palestinians.
Here is the item:
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/13/uk-government-disgraced-britain-front-entire-world-announcing-muslim-ban/
Tom
The children involved are the human flotsam resulting directly from the decisions taken by Blair and Bush in regard to Iraq and Afghanistan while defending absolutely the illegal actions of Israel, committing genocide against the Palestinians.
Here is the item:
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/13/uk-government-disgraced-britain-front-entire-world-announcing-muslim-ban/
Tom
Thanks OG. Very civil of you.
And Tom..I actually tootally agree with you re Bush/ Blair...
If anyone is so hard-hearted as not to care about the people who have fled the eternal war in the middle-east, perhaps you might be concerned about what this evil, fascist government is doing, right here, right now.
If you value the freedoms we in the UK have enjoyed for centuries, then you need to appraise yourself with what Führer May and her toadies are doing to rein in our ability to speak our minds and to stand up to employers, government and have access to redress against abuse.
This is remarkably close to policies implemented in1930s Germany:
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/13/shocking-new-law-will-imprison-people-revealing-inconvenient-facts-about-economy/
Tom
ps This is an opportunity to register disagreement with government policy in this area via petition.
https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campaigns/whistleblower-punishments?utm_campaign=speakout_campaign_1928&utm_medium=thank_you&utm_source=facebook
If you value the freedoms we in the UK have enjoyed for centuries, then you need to appraise yourself with what Führer May and her toadies are doing to rein in our ability to speak our minds and to stand up to employers, government and have access to redress against abuse.
This is remarkably close to policies implemented in1930s Germany:
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/13/shocking-new-law-will-imprison-people-revealing-inconvenient-facts-about-economy/
Tom
ps This is an opportunity to register disagreement with government policy in this area via petition.
https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campaigns/whistleblower-punishments?utm_campaign=speakout_campaign_1928&utm_medium=thank_you&utm_source=facebook
And how long, one wonders before benign taxation disappears as revenue is too low, and there is a "Recycling charge on the Batteries" as there is on engine oil and tyres now?
For the moment anyone wishing to go into a congestion charge area can benefit, not much help if you don't.
And there are other aspects too
http://greenliving.lovetoknow.com/Hybrid_Vehicles_Negative_Environmental_Impact
It would appear that many of the claims are like Brexit promises.
But is it all down to Brexit. Maybe some of these changes were already in the pipeline. Brexit is a convenient scapegoat
Could it have been a gas turbine? Rover did produce such a engine in a car as a test bed. I remember seeing pictures of it
You're too much of a pessimist. The conditions won't materially change in the next 8 years for the London commuting driver, and that's what I posted about, puting the worst light on it. In reality the savings will be greater.
There's no point in quoting about it not applying to others in reply to me when I didn't post about them.
.
You cannot know that before seeing the program, and maybe not even after!
Your "But is it" and "Maybe" are just the biased pessimistic pre-judgement of a "leaver" in an attempt to discredit.
.