Brexit, for once some facts.

[anotherkiwi]

A executive summary:

"Mr Dombret said it was difficult to see how euro-clearing could remain in London, as it depended on the "acceptance of the European Court of Justice" as the arbiter of the thousands of legal contracts signed between counter-parties, many of which last for years.

Britain has made it clear that it does not want to be bound by ECJ judgements once it has left the EU.

"I see strong arguments for having the bulk of the clearing business inside the euro area," Mr Dombret said."

That is 83,000 jobs...

 

[gray198]

I think one of the big mistakes the EU made was to allow in a lot of the Eastern block countries that were not on a par financially with the established members. This was probably one of the main drivers in the movement of labour, which is probably why it was done. I believe that up to that point the EU was on course to be a successful operation. Allowing them in before they were ready destabilised it and caused a lot of today's problems. I am sure that another main reason was purely political to move them away from a Russian influence. Did they try to do a similar thing with the Ukraine causing today's problems?

 

[flecc]

Good post Kiwi...but I wont be investing in Greece..
Would you ?
Seems Flecc would.

You really do have a weirdly distorted judgement. Why do you post that when I've harshly criticised the Greek irresponsible borrowing!

Of course I wouldn't invest there.
.

 

[flecc]

I think one of the big mistakes the EU made was to allow in a lot of the Eastern block countries that were not on a par financially with the established members. This was probably one of the main drivers in the movement of labour, which is probably why it was done. I believe that up to that point the EU was on course to be a successful operation. Allowing them in before they were ready destabilised it and caused a lot of today's problems. I am sure that another main reason was purely political to move them away from a Russian influence. Did they try to do a similar thing with the Ukraine causing today's problems?

Indeed that's true. Sadly it was Britain in the form of John Major, probably egged on by the USA, who strongly promoted the inclusion of the Eastern European countries. The USA's interest was in extending NATO to surround the Russian border.

And yes, it was these moves, also assisted by US undercover influence, that created the orange party and through it the Ukraine problem. And before it in Georgia also, where Russia finally lost patience and entered Georgia to teach them a short sharp lesson. They aren't thinking of joining the EU or NATO any more now!
,

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

the tweets coming out of the house of lords make for some interesting reading.

http://lordsdigitalchamber.co.uk/?q=brexit&page=4

 

[Zlatan]

You really do have a weirdly distorted judgement. Why do you post that when I've harshly criticised the Greek irresponsible borrowing!

Of course I wouldn't invest there.
.

But Flecc isn't that at best ironic. You,d refuse to invest your hard earned cash in Greece but willingly allow/ expect others within UK to do so..As trading partners there would be investment going both ways, in manpower and fiscally.
We are making an investment with every EU member state if we stay within eu.
Your stance is its fine as long as its not your money, which actually it is.
Where did bailout money appear from ? Where would future help, trade arrive from?

The uk has invested billions in eu countries,from holiday homes to commerce, from services to industry. Its going on continually. You stating categorically you wouldn't invest in Greece is actually saying you want out of eu. ( IMO) Or perhaps you would invest in Portugal, Italy, Spain. I wouldn't want to, but I am doing so at moment.

 

[flecc]

But Flecc isn't that at best ironic. You,d refuse to invest your hard earned cash in Greece but willingly allow/ expect others within UK to do so.

For goodness sake Zlatan, I've posted nothing of the sort, not mentioned UK at all. so please stop posting this nonsense.

I posted very clearly my disapproval of the Greek behaviour, which means I also criticise those who lent to them for also being irresponsible.

I did post that members like Greece needed to be dealt with, but that didn't mean giving or lending money, quite the opposite. The best treatment is what they are now suffering, hardship to teach them a lesson in how to behave.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I agree, I cannot talk about Greece or the others but the Irish situation would certainly not have been helped by devaluation. Ireland had a booming economy, based originally in proper economic growth, then found access to cheap German money, cheap because the Germans were putting it into banks, invested some of it into productive purposes eg road network, but more into speculative housebuilding. Imported polish labour to build them on the assumption that net immigration would continue and created a spiral

Similar happened in Greece....it was like letting an alcoholic have cheap booze. Before the Euro interest rates were 23%,overnight they went down to 3%,everybody bought a Merc or Porsche,forgetting that you still have tp pay the capital and run it.
The government then placed a supertax on any luxury cars,secondhand you couldn't give them away,the auto industry collapsed. Realising their mistake they cancelled the tax but the damage had been done.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Then how on Earth has Brexit any attraction for large numbers of Torys who are Capitalist in nature?

Its about power,the EU took away all the power from Rees-Mogg,IDS,Redwood and I suspect Theresa May,but she is cleverer at hiding her objectives,than the others. With power comes money.
Thats all these guys want is their power back,immigration is a side show and stuff the economy,that is a distraction.
Which is why May and Co are so dangerous.
They cannot get this power back without Brexit,which is why its 110% priority,the NHS/Social Care and running the country is an annoyance.
Wonder what new laws they have in the pipeline post Brexit?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The capitalists of course love globalisation but there are other reasons for wanting brexit too. If you have enough money to buy anything your heart desires then what would be the next thing you'd like to spend your money on? power over others? public adulation?

See my post,crossed with yours!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

For goodness sake Zlatan, I've posted nothing of the sort, not mentioned UK at all. so please stop posting this nonsense.

I posted very clearly my disapproval of the Greek behaviour, which means I also criticise those who lent to them for also being irresponsible.

I did post that members like Greece needed to be dealt with, but that didn't mean giving or lending money, quite the opposite. The best treatment is what they are now suffering, hardship to teach them a lesson in how to behave.
.

For goodness sake Flecc....My point was nothing to do with your reply.
I said I find it ironic you would not wish to invest your money in Greece when in actual fact thats exactly what you are doing,if both countries remain within EU.
You cant possibly say on the one hand I would not dream of investing in Greece whilst at same time wanting both countries to remain as trading partners..How on earth can you justify such a contrasting stance. You either want to invest in Greece and be part of EU with all that entails or you do not. You can not have it both ways...
Its taking the stance you do not want to invest and trade with Greece but want them and us to be in EU together. Please exlain how that works....we are part of EU but have a trade and investment embargo with Greece perhaps. ???

 

[oldgroaner]

You could say it but as usual.it would be BS.
And no, even if they had power to bring Hungary, Portugal,Spain, France, Italy and UK into line I would still leave.
Just read my posts OG , stop trying to deduce stuff from between lines. You are sh!te at it.

I read your post and the import was quite clear, and no deduction was required, as it was a criticism of the EU for lack of power over the Member nations which was the reason you voted to leave.
Assuming of course that you did actually vote at all, bearing in mind you stated that you didn't and then retracted it.

If you don't understand your own posts, perhaps you should have someone check your missives to see it they actually make sense before you post them?

 

[oldgroaner]

How clearly does it need to be spelled out before people stop and think about what secession from a 28-strong group of sovereign nation states will actually mean?

Do you actually think this guy is bluffing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38925440

Tom

I think you should have left the sentence unfinished
"Do you actually think" would have been quite sufficient.

 

[Woosh]

I thought you may like a little diversion. Wikipedia's editors have branded the Daily Mail as having "a reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism and flat-out fabrication”.
They have voted to ban it and its website as source for citation.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website

 

[Zlatan]

Similar happened in Greece....it was like letting an alcoholic have cheap booze. Before the Euro interest rates were 23%,overnight they went down to 3%,everybody bought a Merc or Porsche,forgetting that you still have tp pay the capital and run it.
The government then placed a supertax on any luxury cars,secondhand you couldn't give them away,the auto industry collapsed. Realising their mistake they cancelled the tax but the damage had been done.
KudosDave

That's all true. About 8 years ago Porsche Boxsters and 911's could be bought in many parts of eu for under half market value, all originated from Greece. I bought one. Sorry.

 

[flecc]

For goodness sake Flecc....My point was nothing to do with your reply.
I said I find it ironic you would not wish to invest your money in Greece when in actual fact thats exactly what you are doing,if both countries remain within EU.
You cant possibly say on the one hand I would not dream of investing in Greece whilst at same time wanting both countries to remain as trading partners..How on earth can you justify such a contrasting stance. You either want to invest in Greece and be part of EU with all that entails or you do not. You can not have it both ways...
Its taking the stance you do not want to invest and trade with Greece but want them and us to be in EU together. Please exlain how that works....we are part of EU but have a trade and investment embargo with Greece perhaps. ???

1) I did not at any time post that I wanted Greece to remain in the EU. I only posted that I wanted Greece misbehaviour to be dealt with, that misbehaviour being repeatedly breaching EU conditions. In mentioning the EU as a club it's surely apparent that like any misbehaving club member Greece could be ejected. Then they could sink or swim, revealing how much they or the EU were to blame for their predicament

2) I am not in any way responsible for those who foolishly invest in Greece, whether private individuals, banks or any other body.

3) Equally I did not at any time post that I wanted Greece to be or remain a trading partner. I don't, they are not fit to be.

The points you are repeatedly making are fabrications from your own mind and not related to anything I've posted. That is what I am strongly objecting to.
.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ah the Brexit Voters, so wise in their judgement of the character of their champions.

"RT @JamesCleverley1: Boris Johnson has just voted against @ChukaUmunna's amendment to give the NHS an extra £350m a week after Brexit. I'll…
So the Front runner with the biggest mouth on Earth that wanted to give the NHS £350 millions voted against it?

Theme song for the Brexit voter

"We'll Take back sovereignty and give it to One mad woman,
There'll be £350 Millions for the NHS, and control of Immigration.
Promise them everything
Then give the sweet nothing......
Oh how the memory clings
the joys absolute power brings
These foolish things remind me of you!"

 

[oldgroaner]

That's all true. About 8 years ago Porsche Boxsters and 911's could be bought in many parts of eu for under half market value, all originated from Greece. I bought one. Sorry

Another Fairy story, have you more like this?
How long before you forget you wrote this I wonder? perhaps you would be wiser not to post things like that on a public forum boasting can get you into bother.
Are you really expecting us to believe you took advantage of the situation in Greece at the time when cars were being confiscated, and also being sold off to pay Tax demands, to rip off some Greek car owner?
And in doing so help him to reduce the Tax he was liable to as his asset value was less than it really was?
And here you are bold as brass talking about the evil Greeks?
But you were not above taking advantage of them?
Come on admit it you made it all up.

 

[Zlatan]

Another Fairy story, have you more like this?
How long before you forget you wrote this I wonder? perhaps you would be wiser not to post things like that on a public forum boasting can get you into bother.
Are you really expecting us to believe you took advantage of the situation in Greece at the time when cars were being confiscated, and also being sold off to pay Tax demands, to rip off some Greek car owner?
And in doing so help him to reduce the Tax he was liable to as his asset value was less than it really was?
And here you are bold as brass talking about the evil Greeks?
But you were not above taking advantage of them?
Come on admit it you made it all up.

Yes. Cars were finding their way to Germany from where German dealers / garage owners were selling them in Northern Italy , Souther France and Northern Spain. I had a friend bring 4 Porsche and 2 merc s 500s to Perpignan by low loader. Turned out one of Mercs had been clocked and had actually covered over 500,000 km He lost money on the merc, but made plenty on rest. What do you think happens to cars post finacial repossession.. They just get moved on. There were hundreds that came over. Same bloke used to scour UK for old Sports cars..shipped dozens ( probably hundreds) to Japan...Its no big deal, don't believe it if you wish...Where money can be made, folk will move cars anywhere. Wasn't even difficult getting onto French plates...just need matriclation papers and a receipt.
At time a car bought at auction in Greece could be worth 4 x what you paid in St Tropez, Peurto Banus or even Perpignan.

 

[Wicky]

I think one of the big mistakes the EU made was to allow in a lot of the Eastern block countries that were not on a par financially with the established members. This was probably one of the main drivers in the movement of labour, which is probably why it was done. I believe that up to that point the EU was on course to be a successful operation. Allowing them in before they were ready destabilised it and caused a lot of today's problems. I am sure that another main reason was purely political to move them away from a Russian influence. Did they try to do a similar thing with the Ukraine causing today's problems?

Ukraine was looking westward in the hope of joining up with EU, but because things were fraught and still a bit tipsy turvy no indication was given to them that it was a shoe in - then Putin dug his claws in to destabilise Ukriane and stake his claim.