Haven't you been reading my posts or have you forgotten already?
Brexit goes ahead and fails, then we rejoin the EU
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Brexit goes ahead and fails, then we rejoin the EU
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One of my earliest posts on this thread related to this. I live close to the NI Irish republic border and endured the bother of these lorries trapped for hours as the paperwork was being processed. Tailbacks of 5 miles were commonplace. Why is it only now that these haulers have copped on? Were they not discussing this with their public representative s for months?
These are the topics which should appear in a comprehensive white paper.
So basically you want country to make " wrong" decision: live to regret it and go back to EU cap in hand.. What a plan...brilliant in its stupidity.
You seem to assume the whole Brexit issue is somehow for your entertainment and for you to be able to say " told you so" Very mature OG.
Danidl
Good point. All aspects need to be considered. Pros and cons.
but there was a referendum on our relationship in 1975... and anti EU people have disagreed with it for 40 years.
Parliament / government can make a decision this year on A50. So the pro EU lobby has 2 years to try to change the decision if they envoke it. Then if we leave, the pro EU lobby will campaign to get us back into the EU. Almost certainly on a worse deal than currently, but it'll more than likely be a better deal than we'll have then. Potentially. Democracy isn't about accepting a decision... that's dictatorship.
Sorry I don't agree. Democracy needs us all to accept majority decision and work towards a now common goal. One of reasons Italy has proved so weak is its continual change of government and policy ( probably exasperated by proportional representation) . Once decision is made either way the most productive outcome would be gained by us all supporting whichever decision is made. Are are we destined to be in and out eu every few years ad infinitum under your policy ?
Besides, once out I doubt we could ever rejoin.
The fact is country voted out, that decision will now be debated in parliament, voted on by those put in place to decide( a remainers point of view 3 weeks ago) and MPs will then decide direction country us going. I simply can't see your problem now. I believe you are preempting decision and already planning your next strategy. I,m saying let MPs do their job. Take us out or leave us in. I,ll accept it either way.
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So you're now attempting to argue with the definition of democracy?
Democracy, means we all have a voice and a right to express that voice, suggesting there is a better way, is a vital part of that voice.
Falling in line, is not democracy.
BS, Italy is weak because of corruption. Spain is weak because of corruption, Greece is weak because of corruption... Now that we have a corrupt government in the US watch how that works out for them.
Corruption and proportional representation..but I agree.
KTM
So what's your plan post mp vote ?? Lobby and complain if you don't get what you want ? Keep doing so until you do ? That's not democracy..
And we have never had, nor will we ever have, true democracy. Its impossible. Like Churchill said. Our Democracy is worst form of government, but its better than rest. Our whole concept of democracy relies on compromise.
You are saying you accept our democratic process but only when it gives you exactly what you want. I am saying I,ll accept their decision.
Yes, that's exactly my plan, and its exactly the definition of democracy.
I have the right to peacefully do everything I can to keep us in, and then if we leave, get us back into the EU and Single Market. If at any point in the future the majority of MPs agree with me, it'll happen. That's democracy.
If I started a war to fight the current decision, that that would be anti democratic, but me using democratic means to try to get what I want to happen to happen, isn't anti democratic is it?
And BTW what has eu done to get rid of mentioned corruption ? Rather ironic after your stance re staying in eu..
No , I agree , that's fine . Personally I,d rather get on with living tho. But each to his own. Good luck. I wont be lobbying either way. And yes peaceful protest is obviously part of our " democracy".
But , having said that, once decision is made wouldn't it be more productive to put your efforts into making situation work.? Only my opinion, not advice.
We must accept the ruling brought about by Gina Miller's court action.
If our MPs, the one we have elected to represent us, now decide that we should remain in the EU, I will accept that. It will be disappointing given the referendum result, but proper process will have been followed and the outcome will be legitimate.
Remainers must take a similar view if MPs decide to take us out of the EU.
If our MPs, the one we have elected to represent us, now decide that we should remain in the EU, I will accept that. It will be disappointing given the referendum result, but proper process will have been followed and the outcome will be legitimate.
Remainers must take a similar view if MPs decide to take us out of the EU.
No it isn't, not accepting merely means trying to get a decision reversed by interim campaigning, and if that fails, by vote at the general election.
Protest meetings and marches are time honoured ways of campaigning and are part of the democratic process. Blind subservient acceptance of every and any parliamentary decision is not, it's just a way of throwing open the door to any evil.
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Too right! when you think that the only way to get through to the Brainwashed is for them to experience the consequences of making a damn fool decision, what better way indeed what other way is there?
When they are equally as slow to grasp reality as you appear to be there isn't really any other option.
The whole Brexit issue is certainly for somone's entertainment, and a golden opportunity to rip people like you off on a permanent basis.
Yes I do regard it as being for my entertainment, and why not? it certainly in no way is being done for my benefit, is it?
There is an old saying
The best way to get revenge on a man that steals your wife is to let him keep her.
The same goes for Brexit; YOU keep it, I'll laugh at it and you.....and all the other suckers that were taken in over it.
Sorry old chap if that was the case Brexit should never have come up as we should have all worked together on the common cause of making a success of EU membership shouldn't we?
Do try not to talk nonsense all the time
I had seen your reply.
The problem with that is we will be in a perpetual state of conflict and disagreement. This itself can be more damaging than the original decision. Sometimes we have to concede to a final arbiter even though we may profoundly disagree.
That isn't an EU problem, each country has a sovereign parliament, it is a national problem. Fantasy ideas you may have read in the UK tabloids about "getting sovereignty back" are just that, pure fantasy, you can't get back what you haven't given away... France chases down corrupt politicians, one was condemned to prison only weeks ago.
There is however a group of states against corruption and the UK has a representative on the board:
http://www.coe.int/fr/web/greco/home
and... "Several anti-corruption legal instruments are already in place at the European and international level, but implementation by EU States generally remains insufficient."
http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption_en
Shame that the proponents of Brexit spent 44 years dong exactly the opposite of what you recommend we should do.I had seen your reply.
The problem with that is we will be in a perpetual state of conflict and disagreement. This itself can be more damaging than the original decision. Sometimes we have to concede to a final arbiter even though we may profoundly disagree.
They undertook a campaign of continually lying, cheating, bullying and cajoling , using the press for anti EU propaganda, and aiming press anger away from themselves ,and we ended up here, don't you think?
Have you lost your senses to recommend we now weekly submit to this utter confidence trick worked on us?
That is an utterly stupid thing to expect, come back when and if you are serious.
It is entirely your responsibility to make Brexit work and ours to make sure you do that.
Put your money where your mouth is, you broke it, you fix it.
Do you wonder why I laugh at your preposterous nonsense?
Here is the long awaited Bill
let the fun begin:
Suggested amendment
The bill does not advise a date for this action, this amendment calls for enactment only to take place after parliament is advised of the Government's plan regarding negotations for withdrawal from the EU debated the matter and approach fully and voted to indicate it's acceptance by Both the House of Commons and the house of lords.
Anyone else care to make a stab at it?
let the fun begin:
Suggested amendment
The bill does not advise a date for this action, this amendment calls for enactment only to take place after parliament is advised of the Government's plan regarding negotations for withdrawal from the EU debated the matter and approach fully and voted to indicate it's acceptance by Both the House of Commons and the house of lords.
Anyone else care to make a stab at it?