Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I agree. I suspect our government knows it too. I believe if the government wants to spend more on social support, they will simply borrow some more. The money spent on social budget will be recycled several times over, its net impact is relatively small. It's tory's ideology that stops them.

 

[oldtom]

Just as an aside......



Tom

 

[D8ve]

Other news

Can anyone anywhere point to a positive plus in favour of Brexit??

Speaking as a tax payer. My big plus would be not having to pay for hospitals , schools and civil servants. Eliminating them from the pay role and invoking a US style private system would drastically reduce my direct tax position.

 

[D8ve]

Speaking as a tax payer. My big plus would be not having to pay for hospitals , schools and civil servants. Eliminating them from the pay role and invoking a US style private system would drastically reduce my direct tax position.

Bugger in a government employee, I may just lose my job and certainly have to pay again for services that we used to own before they were privatised, grollox.

 

[oldgroaner]

Bugger in a government employee, I may just lose my job and certainly have to pay again for services that we used to own before they were privatised, grollox.

The joys of Brexit.....

 

[Woosh]

Speaking as a tax payer. My big plus would be not having to pay for hospitals , schools and civil servants. Eliminating them from the pay role and invoking a US style private system would drastically reduce my direct tax position.

I am not sure you will.
We spend more on pension (£157 billions) than on healthcare (£139 billions) this year. That is roughly 7.1% of our GDP (£1,943 billions). We rank roughly 15th in the EU28 on healthcare spending. Germany for example spends 11.3% of their GDP on healthcare.
When we say the NHS is our treasure, it's really only true if we spend a third more.

 

[D8ve]

I am not sure you will.
We spend more on pension (£157 billions) than on healthcare (£139 billions) this year. That is roughly 7.1% of our GDP (£1,943 billions). We rank roughly 15th in the EU28 on healthcare spending. Germany for example spends 11.3% of their GDP on healthcare.
When we say the NHS is our treasure, it's really only true if we spend a third more.

But surely the US system that only costs $9,000 per head at 12% of gnp is far better that our centrally funded state run system. I mean that's what our betters in parliament say, may be they are wrong but brexit may be right.
Ps uk spend 2015 is est as $4,000

 

[flecc]

We spend more on pension (£157 billions) than on healthcare (£139 billions) this year.

And therein is the trap. Spending more on healthcare results in people living longer, raising the pensions bill too.

Both need to be budgeted in parallel.
.

 

[Croxden]

Speaking as a tax payer. My big plus would be not having to pay for hospitals , schools and civil servants. Eliminating them from the pay role and invoking a US style private system would drastically reduce my direct tax position.

As long as you're fit and healthy, what happens if you're not?

 

[flecc]

As long as you're fit and healthy, what happens if you're not?

You save even more, since you don't have to put aside so much for a pension!
.

 

[oldgroaner]

As long as you're fit and healthy, what happens if you're not?

You die a miserable and probably painful death, unlamented by the Government of course, after all you're only an asset when paying Tax and buying consumables to them.
They believe that only those that can afford it deserve Healh Care.
Remember the only reasons private health schemes are permitted to exist are as follows

1. To make a profit out of human suffering
2. primarily to return consumer back to the point where they can return to work, buying products and services and paying tax
3. To ensure the Well off can jump the queue and get the best service and the poor can be made to wait.
4. There is nothing to spare for prolonging the life of the Chronically ill, poor or elderly as you soon discover.

This is the reason the NHS is necessary, private health schemes are an abuse of Human Rights, and a sign that the society that relies on them alone cannot call itself civilised.

During my career the company I worked for enrolled me as a "perk" in all the major health schemes as a non refuseable option.
Their reason?
"We can't afford to have key personnel going off ill when we need them"
Was the reason given.
Interestingly by the time I was 55 they stopped doing that.

 

[oldgroaner]

You save even more, since you don't have to put aside so much for a pension!
.

The poor devils that worked in our foundry didn't need to save for pensions,most were dead before they reached that age, 55 was about average.

 

[flecc]

The poor devils that worked in our foundry didn't need to save for pensions,most were dead before they reached that age, 55 was about average.

A very common situation.

I took over as manager of a depot of a very old fashioned company in 1974 when four employees were getting close to the 65 retirement age. I totally changed the way that was run to greatly improve all working conditions and reduce the hours, but it was too late for those four. One died of widespread cancer shortly after 64, another similarly affected just short of 65. A third died of prostate cancer two months after retiring a little early due to his ill health. The fourth died from natural causes five months after retiring at 65.

Even though I don't believe in funerals, I was at least able to use company money for funerals where necessary on behalf of their relatives, but it would have been so much better for that money and more to have been invested decades before in better working conditions.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

A very common situation.

I took over as manager of a depot of a very old fashioned company in 1974 when four employees were getting close to the 65 retirement age. I totally changed the way that was run to greatly improve all working conditions and reduce the hours, but it was too late for those four. One died of widespread cancer shortly after 64, another similarly affected just short of 65. A third died of prostate cancer two months after retiring a little early due to his ill health. The fourth died from natural causes five months after retiring at 65.

Even though I don't believe in funerals, I was at least able to use company money for funerals where necessary on behalf of their relatives, but it would have been so much better for that money amd more to have been invested decades before in better working conditions.
.

Good for you flecc!

 

[Woosh]

But surely the US system that only costs $9,000 per head at 12% of gnp is far worse that our centrally funded state run system. I mean that's what our betters in parliament say, may be they are wrong but brexit may be right.
Ps uk spend 2015 is est as $4,000

The US healthcare, albeit more expensive, is much better than ours, much less waiting for treatments.

 

[D8ve]

The US healthcare, albeit more expensive, is much better than ours, much less waiting for treatments.

If you have no money how much better is it in the good ol US of A?

 

[Woosh]

I am not criticizing the NHS, only wishing it is better funded. I am currently on waiting list for a minor op. Having spent recently a week in hospital, I could see the effect of cuts for myself.

 

[Lister]

"or perhaps even Boris, who has the pheasant like penchant for changing his mind after running half way across a busy road, and having changed direction, changes his mind again."

Spot on,how does he survive, must have friends in high places, or poor shots.?

 

[D8ve]

I am not criticizing the NHS, only wishing it is better funded. I am currently on waiting list for a minor op. Having spent recently a week in hospital, I could see the effect of cuts for myself.

As a government servant my self having had 10 years of pay freeze in one form or other. I wish they would stop paying off the bankers and start supporting manufacturing, in U.K. With uk ownership. Moving money in circles and services don't grow rice or make bowls to eat from.

 

[Woosh]

Before we rush into criticizing the bankers, we should perhaps start with Mrs Thatcher's Big Bang in 1983. I had a few friends working in London City then, they spent many weekends explaining to me how Big Bang changed the way they worked. We should also criticize Gordon Brown for putting us into a bind when the banking crisis hit the City in 2008. Bankers are greedy by their jobs. Our politicians did not want to implement checks and balances. You could say they are changing.
However, brexit promises deregulation. That is exactly what led us into the last banking crisis.