Brexit, for once some facts.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

KTM
Ok, fair enough...but exactly what rules have changed under Brexit for you to automatically assume its the cause..
As far as I am aware not a single rule or policy has actually changed..???
Which remainers are quick to point out when it suits them.

That's my point... nothing has changed, but already since June last year a lot of the EU citizens who are now being forced to apply for UK citizenship are having their applications refused. There are a number of groups for this portion of the UK population who weren't allowed a vote in the referendum even though many of them have lived in the UK their entire lives. If you don't know any EU passport holders who live and work in the UK, you won't appreciate the concerns they currently have. At the moment they don't know if they'll be able to stay!

This is a statement that was issued yesterday.

The statements reads:

“It is extremely disappointing that the Prime Minister has not used this speech as an opportunity to unilaterally guarantee that all European citizens or those living in the UK under the protection of EU treaty rights will have the right to remain here after Brexit.

“All EU citizens resident in Britain should get a firm assurance in law that they will be able to continue living in the UK, with exactly the same rights of residence as they have now. This should happen no later than the moment at which Article 50 is triggered to end the uncertainty that millions of our family members, our friends, our colleagues and our neighbours are experiencing.

“We reject the notion that no guarantees can be given until the European Union offers the same guarantees to British citizens living in Europe. The UK voted to leave the EU, so the onus is on our government to take the lead in resolving this issue, which stems directly from that vote.

“We know the vast majority of Britons support our call, whether they voted Leave or Remain in last year’s referendum, so if the Government takes action now it will help to unite the country.”

The statement is co-signed by:
the3million
Coventry Refugee and Migrant Centre
The Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants (JCWI)
The New Economics Foundation (NEF)
Migrants Resource Centre
Migrant Rights Network
Migrant Voice
New Europeans

 

[Zlatan]

That's my point... nothing has changed, but already since June last year a lot of the EU citizens who are now being forced to apply for UK citizenship are having their applications refused. There are a number of groups for this portion of the UK population who weren't allowed a vote in the referendum even though many of them have lived in the UK their entire lives. If you don't know any EU passport holders who live and work in the UK, you won't appreciate the concerns they currently have. At the moment they don't know if they'll be able to stay!

This is a statement that was issued yesterday.

The statements reads:

“It is extremely disappointing that the Prime Minister has not used this speech as an opportunity to unilaterally guarantee that all European citizens or those living in the UK under the protection of EU treaty rights will have the right to remain here after Brexit.

“All EU citizens resident in Britain should get a firm assurance in law that they will be able to continue living in the UK, with exactly the same rights of residence as they have now. This should happen no later than the moment at which Article 50 is triggered to end the uncertainty that millions of our family members, our friends, our colleagues and our neighbours are experiencing.

“We reject the notion that no guarantees can be given until the European Union offers the same guarantees to British citizens living in Europe. The UK voted to leave the EU, so the onus is on our government to take the lead in resolving this issue, which stems directly from that vote.

“We know the vast majority of Britons support our call, whether they voted Leave or Remain in last year’s referendum, so if the Government takes action now it will help to unite the country.”

The statement is co-signed by:
the3million
Coventry Refugee and Migrant Centre
The Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants (JCWI)
The New Economics Foundation (NEF)
Migrants Resource Centre
Migrant Rights Network
Migrant Voice
New Europeans

Fair point Kiwi, I think its political manouvering prior to negotiations. Government are making a point perhaps. And I do agree some allowance must be made and folk involved kept informed. I know lots of expats in Spain and they are very unsure of future and where they stand..
Its all part of the future discussions.

Listened to Juhnker this morning. He actually sounded reasonable..for a change...

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Fair point Kiwi, I think its political manouvering prior to negotiations. Government are making a point perhaps. And I do agree some allowance must be made and folk involved kept informed. I know lots of expats in Spain and they are very unsure of future and where they stand..
Its all part of the future discussions.

Listened to Juhnker this morning. He actually sounded reasonable..for a change...

He did sound reasonable, because he's been placed in a position where he can't loose. The UK is going to make the EU look brilliant there is no way the EU can loose over the next 2-5 years in this negotiation.

Here is a little insight into how yesterday was viewed across Europe.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/the-european-media-largely-hated-theresa-mays-brexit-speech-and-that-is-a-problem-for-us/

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm over it. We are heading out of the EU. That was the promise, that's what is being delivered.

Actually I'm banking on it happening as an essential lesson to those who voted for Brexit .

 

[oldgroaner]

Fair point Kiwi, I think its political manouvering prior to negotiations. Government are making a point perhaps. And I do agree some allowance must be made and folk involved kept informed. I know lots of expats in Spain and they are very unsure of future and where they stand..
Its all part of the future discussions.

Listened to Juhnker this morning. He actually sounded reasonable..for a change...

Steady on! you have a reputation to consider, that post was reasonable.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Steady on! you have a reputation to consider, that post was reasonable.

apart from the fact he got my name wrong

 

[flecc]

Steady on! you have a reputation to consider, that post was reasonable.

Except for him getting muddled again and calling KTM Kiwi.

N.B. Post crossed with KTM's above.
.

 

[tillson]

The EU will have to change a bit before.

I think the EU will change after we have left. If it doesn't, its demise will be more certain than it is today, as if that were possible..

 

[tillson]

Actually I'm banking on it happening as an essential lesson to those who voted for Brexit .

Me too. A lesson to trust your instincts and not to be held prisoner by the fear of change.

 

[oldgroaner]

Me too. A lesson to trust your instincts and not to be held prisoner by the fear of change.

If that is what motivates you did you vote to leave the EU because you were afraid of the change where it becomes a United States of Europe?
I didn't really take you as a "little Englander" but perhaps I was wrong about that?

 

[flecc]

not to be held prisoner by the fear of change.

Surely that's the reverse of the truth. The English and to a fair extent the Welsh want to cling onto the Britain that they understand. Clearly they fear any prospect of a change into being part of a large country called Europe.

N.B. Crossed with OG's post expressing the same sentiment.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think the EU will change after we have left. If it doesn't, its demise will be more certain than it is today, as if that were possible..

More likely it will become a United States of Europe with a small backward neighbour across the channel that missed it's chance to be part of something great.

 

[oldgroaner]

Except for him getting muddled again and calling KTM Kiwi.

N.B. Post crossed with KTM's above.
.

Be fair, encourage him when he is Trying not to be TRYING

 

[oldgroaner]

He did sound reasonable, because he's been placed in a position where he can't loose. The UK is going to make the EU look brilliant there is no way the EU can loose over the next 2-5 years in this negotiation.

Here is a little insight into how yesterday was viewed across Europe.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/the-european-media-largely-hated-theresa-mays-brexit-speech-and-that-is-a-problem-for-us/

It obviously went down well didn't it?
Unsinkable May did a "Titanic"

 

[Zlatan]

Steady on! you have a reputation to consider, that post was reasonable.

Thanks..

 

[flecc]

It obviously went down well didn't it?
Unsinkable May did a "Titanic"

She certainly did, I'm baffled at the many who think hers was a good speech. It was merely a standard political con, telling her audience what they wanted to hear, regardless of how impractical her proposals were.

As one of the mainland EU representatives has just said, any deal the UK gets will of necessity be inferior to what we have at present. That's obvious, the EU cannot let us leave on better or even equal terms, getting what we want without paying the fees. Every EU country would want that.

So we are going to be worse off out while we tour the world with a begging bowl, hoping for some charitable scraps of trade for the little we produce.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think the EU will change after we have left. If it doesn't, its demise will be more certain than it is today, as if that were possible..

I think that yes in fact it will be a much better place, no more sabotage from within will be a big step forward!

 

[tillson]

I think that yes in fact it will be a much better place, no more sabotage from within will be a big step forward!

I think someone is getting over excited!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Away from this forum there has been a mellowing of attitudes between remainers and leavers.
I thought May's speech was as good as it possibly could have been. The reaction to it in general public calm and measured. Both sides made sensible comments last night.
The pound/ ftse/ business reaction was minimal and unreactionary.
Lets hope we can all come up Trumps...???

The pound/ftse was hardly minimal,the pound moved 3% up in the day and the ftse fell in tandem.
But I did like Theresa May speech,just wonder whether it is too optimistic and the EU will scupper her 'associate member' of the customs union.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The word "Advisory" never appeared once in the public arena prior to the referendum. This thread started way before a single vote was cast and I'd be surprised if anyone mentioned it being an "Advisory" process prior to that point in time. The official line from the government was that the people would be given a choice whether or not to stay in the EU and that the government would carry out their decision. That's very plain and very clear.

Although technically correct, "Advisory" has been born out of a sourness and a lack of dignity in defeat by those who supported remain. It was made clear by the government before the referendum what we were voting for and it's still clear now.

The vote was about our future membership of the EU. The result was that the majority wanted to leave. The consequence is that we are going to leave the EU.

Get over it. Show some dignity. Drop the "Advisory" rubbish.

Tillson....do you think Brexit is going to make you richer or poorer?
KudosDave