Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit: Theresa May would consider 'associate European citizenship' for British people
No 10 says it wants to 'find a way' for UK citizens to live and work in member states following the country's withdrawal from the bloc
Downing Street has signalled it may be willing to do a deal with European leaders that could grant Britons “associate citizenship” of the EU.

After being asked about the idea, Theresa May’s spokesperson confirmed the UK would “want to find a way” to allow people from the UK to live and work in the European Union after Brexit, though officials later underlined that the Government was not tied to any particular method of doing so.

Can any of the leave supporters give their "take" on that? to me it sounds like a sell out, though from my point of view a good idea.
Just one fly in the ointment ; we will loose out "best and brightest" in a Brain Drain when things go downhill here.
On balance it would be very unwise to allow "Free Movement" down the gangplank as this boat sinks in the Harbour from the very people with the brains to stop it sinking.

 

[oldgroaner]

It's nice to know this isn't the only country being run by an idiot.
"
Donald Trump wipes $3.5bn off Lockheed Martin market value with single tweet
Last week, Trump took a shot at Boeing via Twitter threatening to cancel its 747 Air Force One program, with the company taking a $1.4bn hit to its market value
Barely a week after taking shots at Boeing, Donald Trump took aim at Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jet programme, saying the cost was "out of control".
Not bad when he hasn't even sat in the hot seat yet.
With him in charge we may not live to see Brexit, never mind suffer the consequences.

 

[oldtom]

it sounds like a sell out

Although news and genuine information about this hugely important issue is scarce due to the lack of transparency from the government, it does nonetheless look very suspicious. A little more information would assist us drawing a conclusion about what May and her idiot collaborators are really up to.

I fear though, that any extra details would only serve to reinforce my view that if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it almost certainly is a duck!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Although news and genuine information about this hugely important issue is scarce due to the lack of transparency from the government, it does nonetheless look very suspicious. A little more information would assist us drawing a conclusion about what May and her idiot collaborators are really up to.

I fear though, that any extra details would only serve to reinforce my view that if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it almost certainly is a duck!

Tom

"Quackers?" or is it a ploy to get rid of the ambitious and intelligent and leave what appears to be the Right wingers dream, a population cowed, uneducated and willing serfs they can exploit easily?

 

[flecc]

Barely a week after taking shots at Boeing, Donald Trump took aim at Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jet programme, saying the cost was "out of control".

In fairness to him he's right about the F35. There's been huge and mounting opposition to it's continuing developing for a long time now since it's a bottomless pit where costs are concerned.

Our government wil be buying them for the one of the two impending new aircaft carriers which will be used. This is pretty much an assurance that the F35 will be a dud, judging by our other disastrous defence purchasing decisions.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

In fairness to him he's right about the F35. There's been huge and mounting opposition to it's continuing developing for a long time now since it's a bottomless pit where costs are concerned.

Our government wil be buying them for the one of the two impending new aircaft carriers which will be used. This is pretty much an assurance that the F35 will be a dud, judging by our other disastrous defence purchasing decisions.
.

Even so government by twitter tweets is a good way of starting world war 3, surely?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Even so government by twitter tweets is a good way of starting world war 3, surely?

It seems he and Boris have trained at the same school of diplomacy.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

It seems he and Boris have trained at the same school of diplomacy.
.

And managed to get Expelled?

 

[mike killay]

I never trust newspapers.
An apocryphal story, maybe a myth is that after the Kennedy assassination, the world's news reporters were desperate for any titbits.
They badgered one of the Doctors who had treated the President in his death throes,he explained that he was a trauma surgeon, not a pathologist, but they ignored that inconvenient fact,
'Could the bullet have come from the front, left side, right side, grassy knoll etc.?'
In frustration, the poor man snapped out,
'It could have come from Mars for all that I know.'
Next day's headline,
'JFK bullet may have come from Mars says Kennedy doctor.'

 

[Croxden]

I never trust newspapers.
'

But are to believe what the Tory press say about the EU and the like?

 

[oldgroaner]

In principle a distrust of all forms of Media should be the default reaction to any news, the problem then of course is to try and come to a viewpoint that appears to work, bearing in mind what we are being offered as alleged Facts, and what past experience and perhaps a little historical research tends give as a viable viewpoint of the "News"
In many ways in the final analysis of what the news means to you is entirely a matter of what you wish it to be.
A good starting point is to ask what the present and past motives of the Purveyors of the News and their Political loyaltes are
Sadly when viewed en masse, humanity has a tendency not to apply any critical analysis as a matter of habit, which is why disreputable politicians and Media moguls are able to condition the public to believe wrong is right and black is white in pursuing their agenda of exercising power and control.

By deflecting public anger away from themselves and against the EU they have achieved a classic victory, and convinced the public to quite erroneously believe it has established control over the Government and improved it's own standard of living and prospects for the future.
The Motives of the Leaders of the leave campaign are self seeking and sinister, and it will turn the public against them over time
Public support will be short lived, for without it's "whipping boy" to blame the poor quality of Government will be quickly exposed, hence the campaign in the Press now, to Blame the EU for "punishing us" when they are simply applying the rules, with which the Media and Eurosceptics hope to keep duping the Public for an extended period into the future.

The Elite cannot lose, no matter which Party is elected, as they will have taken their "pound of flesh"out of the country before it blows up, and the losers will, as always be the Public, and in the end there will be major unrest over this foolishness.

 

[oldgroaner]

But are to believe what the Tory press say about the EU and the like?

No sounds good and works for me!

 

[Kudoscycles]

From the Independent
"
Brexit: Theresa May would consider 'associate European citizenship' for British people
No 10 says it wants to 'find a way' for UK citizens to live and work in member states following the country's withdrawal from the bloc
Downing Street has signalled it may be willing to do a deal with European leaders that could grant Britons “associate citizenship” of the EU.

After being asked about the idea, Theresa May’s spokesperson confirmed the UK would “want to find a way” to allow people from the UK to live and work in the European Union after Brexit, though officials later underlined that the Government was not tied to any particular method of doing so.

Can any of the leave supporters give their "take" on that? to me it sounds like a sell out, though from my point of view a good idea.
Just one fly in the ointment ; we will loose out "best and brightest" in a Brain Drain when things go downhill here.
On balance it would be very unwise to allow "Free Movement" down the gangplank as this boat sinks in the Harbour from the very people with the brains to stop it sinking.

If Germans,Spaniards or Poles also take EU citizenship will they be allowed free movement into the UK?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

It does seem as though the momentum of the Leave campaign is slowing,I think the fact that many are going to have to lose money is taking the fun out of it. Hammond seems to be making it more difficult (and costly) for Leavers,his heart has never been in Brexit,less so now.
We cant keep talking about it for 2 years,it is inevitable that it will fall off the front pages.
KudosDave

 

[Jimod]

We cant keep talking about it for 2 years,it is inevitable that it will fall off the front pages.
KudosDave

There's 4 or 5 posters on this thread who could quite easily talk about it for 2 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

There's 4 or 5 posters on this thread who could quite easily talk about it for 2 years.

No!.....Really?

 

[Kudoscycles]

I think the Brexiters are looking down the wrong end of the telescope.....

The Brexiteers were explicitly offering voters a once-in-a-lifetime shot at changing the status quo. And before embarking on what has otherwise been a stiff-backed, fixed-grin, try-hard few months at No 10, Theresa May got it, promising “people voted for change. And a change is going to come.

Except change, in our new prime minister’s dictionary, just means more of the same. Admittedly, it is only six months into Year Zero and Britain is yet to start disentangling itself from Europe. But whatever is promised – hard or soft, red white or blue – it’s clear that the terms of Brexit will be dictated by Donald Tusk, Angela Merkel and the other 27 members of the EU, rather than by our dream team of May, Boris Johnson and David Davis. We can also see much else of what the next few years will bring. The economic plan for the rest of this decade has been laid out by Philip Hammond, and it equals austerity-lite – but for even longer. The forecasts for wages and living standards are in, and they indicate Britain will suffer its first lost decade since Karl Marx was alive.

Brexiters....what was your prize for winning????
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

There's 4 or 5 posters on this thread who could quite easily talk about it for 2 years.

A short book is around 50,000 words. Medium novel roughly 100,000. Longest book. ( War and,Peace) depending on which translation is around 680,000.
A couple of posters must have posted upwards of a 1000 times. Average offering 100 words or so.
Certain folk have quite literally written a book on here...( literally written a book? Suppose they all are)
Some folk have contributed hundreds of valuable posts. Some folk have contributed a valuable post hundreds of times....only saying...

 

[oldgroaner]

There's 4 or 5 posters on this thread who could quite easily talk about it for 2 years.

That should get a response from the Invisible Thought Police on here!

 

[oldgroaner]

I think the Brexiters are looking down the wrong end of the telescope.....

The Brexiteers were explicitly offering voters a once-in-a-lifetime shot at changing the status quo. And before embarking on what has otherwise been a stiff-backed, fixed-grin, try-hard few months at No 10, Theresa May got it, promising “people voted for change. And a change is going to come.

Except change, in our new prime minister’s dictionary, just means more of the same. Admittedly, it is only six months into Year Zero and Britain is yet to start disentangling itself from Europe. But whatever is promised – hard or soft, red white or blue – it’s clear that the terms of Brexit will be dictated by Donald Tusk, Angela Merkel and the other 27 members of the EU, rather than by our dream team of May, Boris Johnson and David Davis. We can also see much else of what the next few years will bring. The economic plan for the rest of this decade has been laid out by Philip Hammond, and it equals austerity-lite – but for even longer. The forecasts for wages and living standards are in, and they indicate Britain will suffer its first lost decade since Karl Marx was alive.

Brexiters....what was your prize for winning????
KudosDave

I would guess "The sort of Government they Deserve?"