Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

What's your evidence for that Tom. My (Female) bank manager has an IQ of 145 ( member of mensa and a good friend) voted leave. My wife ( also a member if mensa) has an IQ of 142 ( scored on Mensa tests last 4 occasions) voted leave. Not sure but,I,d guess Peter Hargreaves will be circa,140 IQ and voted leave.They are all very well travelled as well. Only a small sample but you get my drift.
How did you get so angry ??

Do you really need to ask that question? Really?

He has not a shred of evidence Zlatan. Therefore, you may dismiss his ramblings as a random series of words and phrases which are punctuated by plagiarised quotes and presented by a fool.

Since the remain camp were crushed in the referendum, there has been a subtle drive to plant the following notion into people's minds; If you support BREXIT, you are poor, badly educated, of low intellect and uncultured. Whereas if you are a supporter of the EU, you have benefitted from education, your intellect is superior and have a rich cultural background which is likely to lead you to prosperity.

I think the idea is that we should want to be in with the educated / cultured set But without wishing to start a qualifications / career bidding war, I'm sure that from the people you know and the type of characters that you work with, no such division exists. Both sides of the argument are supported by people from a variety of backgrounds.

 

[oldtom]

Vox political has something to say on the PM's trip to the middle-east:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/12/06/theresa-may-bes-latest-brexit-tactic-disown-all-previous-plans-and-create-a-distraction/

I think the author is privy to inside information.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Do you really need to ask that question? Really?

He has not a shred of evidence Zlatan. Therefore, you may dismiss his ramblings as a random series of words and phrases which are punctuated by plagiarised quotes and presented by a fool.

Since the remain camp were crushed in the referendum, there has been a subtle drive to plant the following notion into people's minds; If you support BREXIT, you are poor, badly educated, of low intellect and uncultured. Whereas if you are a supporter of the EU, you have benefitted from education, your intellect is superior and have a rich cultural background which is likely to lead you to prosperity.

I think the idea is that we should want to be in with the educated / cultured set But without wishing to start a qualifications / career bidding war, I'm sure that from the people you know and the type of characters that you work with, no such division exists. Both sides of the argument are supported by people from a variety of backgrounds.

And you have the sheer brass to say Tom's comments are presented by a fool?
Really that is a great way to start my day with a Chuckle, and this bit
"Crushed"? as in if the result had gone the other way by the same margin, both lord Nigel and Davis had said it would be "unacceptable,Work in progress and only a 2:1 defeat would be regarded as closing the matter?"
I stand humbled by your wit and ability to make even the most outrageous comments appear sensible.
And you didn't even have the faith to forecast the result anyway?
Excellent! you have really made my day, but then I so look forward to reading your pearls of wisdom.

 

[oldgroaner]

Vox political has something to say on the PM's trip to the middle-east:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/12/06/theresa-may-bes-latest-brexit-tactic-disown-all-previous-plans-and-create-a-distraction/

I think the author is privy to inside information.

Tom

She learned From Cameron and Boris perhaps?

 

[oldgroaner]

Besides which, court rooms aren't designed to hold 16.1 million people.

Tom

But there's plenty of room outside for the two car loads (nee 100,000) protesters of course.

 

[tillson]

And you have the sheer brass to say Tom's comments are presented by a fool?

No "brass" required OG, it is an exquisitely natural act to label old tom a fool, for a fool he surely is. All that he writes is either, stolen, rooted in fantasy, steeped in hypocrisy or simply fabricated.

Really that is a great way to start my day with a Chuckle, and this bit
"Crushed"? as in if the result had gone the other way by the same margin, both lord Nigel and Davis had said it would be "unacceptable,Work in progress and only a 2:1 defeat would be regarded as closing the matter?"

I believe the remain camp are feeling crushed. Why else would they resort to the the unpleasant smearing that we are witnessing?

I stand humbled by your wit and ability to make even the most outrageous comments appear sensible.
And you didn't even have the faith to forecast the result anyway?
Excellent! you have really made my day, but then I so look forward to reading your pearls of wisdom.

I couldn't call the result of the referendum and if I had been pushed to make a choice, it would have been the wrong one. I would have forecast a remain victory.

That aside, I must again congratulate you on correctly predicting the outcome of an event with only two possible outcomes.

 

[oldtom]

She learned From Cameron and Boris perhaps?

Dave Elderfield also alluded previously to the PM's magical ability to be abroad on 'crucial' diplomatic business whenever there exists the opportunity for her to be put on the spot in the Commons.

Notice that Theresa May is currently on a diplomatic tour to Bahrain....surprised she is away on Opposition Day in the Commons and the Supreme Court case.
Wasn't she away in India the last time the Commons had an opposition day.
She seems to be away every time there is possible flac at home.
KudosDave

It is the art of politics, I suppose, to be able to appoint quislings to thankless tasks then blame the same obsequious patsies for their incompetence if it all turns to muck. Things get worse by the day and we become clearer that there is no deal to be had which improves on the one we have right now. May knows this and is simply buying time, hoping for some miracle to allow her to continue in office.

I'm bound to say, if 'Brexit' really means 'Brexit', then any failure to achieve the full, hardcore version under her leadership must result in May's removal from office. It's not as if she wasn't in possession of all the available information when she leapt at the opportunity to occupy 10 Downing St, imagining herself as Thatcher's spiritual successor.

Tom

 

[flecc]

It being the case does not justify it Flecc. I believe Gina Miller has had death threats. Absolute madness. The whole process, beginning to its end ( if it does end) is not fit for purpose.

There is no other way when a government executive seeks to abuse with powers it does not have. Someone needs to protest by calling on the law of the land to overrule.

It's all very well for you to criticise the process, but what do you propose in its place?
.

 

[Croxden]

I'm off for a Blood test this morning so went out early to get some, what are you doing up?

I wasn't up, the advantage of an iPad.

 

[Croxden]

I know a gross of people with an IQ of 144.

I could have made it clearer I suppose, but I meant collectively they had an IQ of 144 (gross, get it?) oh well.

 

[homemoz]

Well, after all these posts it seems Brexit isn't about Brexit at all. I understand from Mr Farage (not personally, I hasten to add) that Brexit is really the first stage in a populist uprising to overturn the liberal elite and conservative status quo.The problem is that as far as I can see, the track record for populist uprisings isn't particularly good. Thinking here of the Russian Revolution leading to Stalin, the Cultural Revolution in China and the devastation that provoked & of course Germany in the 1930s. There may be exceptions i.e. Castro & Cuba but the jury seems to be out on that one. So are there positive examples I am missing that set the scene for our current aspiring leaders to emulate?

One of my indulgences is to subscribe to a podcast called Skeptoid. Podcast 472 was about Trofim Lynseko who was appointed by Stalin to lead the push for increasing agricultural yields in Stalinist Russia. It seems that Lysenko was appointed mainly on the basis of his populist credentials. Unfortunately, the science he promoted especially about genetics had no real basis in facts. The end result was the setting back of soviet agriculture by decades. I make this point to illustrate the difference between expert opinion which may be wrong but on the right lines (peer review is there to ensure that at least methodology is correct), compared with policy based purely on ideology (populist or otherwise) which can be both wrong & dangerous. In the words of Roy Harper (for those of a certain age & disposition) "We are condemned to make the same mistakes over & over and over & over again...we are condemned".
Just to cheer you all up.....

 

[oldtom]

I could have made it clearer I suppose, but I meant collectively they had an IQ of 144 (gross, get it?) oh well.

Yes, I understand but you've probably forgotten that, in life, while some things are foolproof, certain things are simply not idiot-proof.

Sometimes, one needs to just take a deep breath and move on.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Are we allowed to be insulting by implication?, this is harder than it looks!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Wasn't aimed at you OG ? Assumed like button was another,s work.??? ( on the insinuated insult post)
I,m happy to resume ,continue our armistice.
Tilson
Perfect summation of Tom.
Cant understand OG's support for him.. I did infer Tom had called OG scum ??? Perhaps not, its how I interpreted it.
Out of interest OG, but dont feel obliged to answer, are you a labour voter.?

 

[oldtom]

So are there positive examples I am missing that set the scene for our current aspiring leaders to emulate?

Good, thoughtful post that, 'homemoz' and I don't mean that in a condescending way.

As for the question, I'm thinking and, paraphrasing the words of Captain Oates, 'I may be gone some time'...........Can I get back to you on that one?

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

No "brass" required OG, it is an exquisitely natural act to label old tom a fool, for a fool he surely is. All that he writes is either, stolen, rooted in fantasy, steeped in hypocrisy or simply fabricated.



I believe the remain camp are feeling crushed. Why else would they resort to the the unpleasant smearing that we are witnessing?



I couldn't call the result of the referendum and if I had been pushed to make a choice, it would have been the wrong one. I would have forecast a remain victory.

That aside, I must again congratulate you on correctly predicting the outcome of an event with only two possible outcomes.

I got lucky, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[oldgroaner]

Wasn't aimed at you OG ? Assumed like button was another,s work.??? ( on the insinuated insult post)
I,m happy to resume ,continue our armistice.
Tilson
Perfect summation of Tom.
Cant understand OG's support for him.. I did infer Tom had called OG scum ??? Perhaps not, its how I interpreted it.
Out of interest OG, but dont feel obliged to answer, are you a labour voter.?

I would be in the theoretical situation where a Labour Party existed if you know what I mean.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is no other way when a government executive seeks to abuse with powers it does not have. Someone needs to protest by calling on the law of the land to overrule.

It's all very well for you to criticise the process, but what do you propose in its place?
.

We could try "Pandemonium" ... oh too late.....

 

[oldtom]

He has not a shred of evidence Zlatan. Therefore, you may dismiss his ramblings as a random series of words and phrases which are punctuated by plagiarised quotes and presented by a fool.

'tillson', I understand that it's very easy for those in the 'remain' camp to see the gaping holes in the 'Brexit' fantasy and forcefully point them out to those conned by professional agitators and rabblerousers. However, if you really insist on trying to defend the indefensible, surely it is not beyond your intelligence to explain why we should ignore the glaring errors and inconsistencies purveyed by the leaders of the 'Brexit' movement.

In destroying the case for 'Brexit', only basic facts have been used so if there is anything certain, factual or perhaps even probable, likely to result from proceeding with the madness of 'Brexit', that 'remainers' may have missed, could you bring those to our attention?

I'm inclined to believe you are devoid of any positive thoughts, let alone facts, to corroborate the case you so passionately support. Were that not the case, you would refrain from falling into the trap of 'ad hominem', the last refuge of those unable to argue their case logically. Your unconditional support for the recently acquired forum troll simply adds to my sense of disappointment that you have chosen to align yourself with fascists, racists and the lunatic fringe generally.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Tom
So why call brexit voters idiots, Tory voters scum, myself a bigot and various other people racist, xenophobic, thick etc etc. Nobody is questioning your opinions or right to hold them, but neither yourself or anyone else has any right what so ever ( it should be a banning incident) to insult or patronise posters in the way you do.

On your opinions, you can not see that both sides of argument have been conned, misled and lied to. Its exactly why I refused to vote.(and I was in Australia at time )
Take care Tom.
Your arguments and points are valid, even if I disagree with them, but don't insult me for not doing so.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, I understand but you've probably forgotten that, in life, while some things are foolproof, certain things are simply not idiot-proof.

Sometimes, one needs to just take a deep breath and move on.

Tom

I proved that this morning at the Doctors.
The nurse wanted to take blood and examined both arms carefully and having made a decision plunged in the needle and not a spot of blood came out, not even when she withdrew it and tried in the other arm. in fact the needle was completely dry.
"I looked at her and seeing her disappointment offered, "These are in fact real arms, and I have used them this morning" and wriggled my fingers to attempt to prove it.
Her response was "that doesn't prove they are actually alive it could be random electrical impulses"
"You'll have to come back another day and have the Nurse practitioner do it."
"Is she more skilled in the arts of blood letting?" I asked.
"No she replied but it's (Name withheld) and failure is not an option as far as she is concerned."
The odd thing I have noted is that if I check my blood pressure at home it is always around where it should be, but not somehow when near medical personnel, obviously I must find their presence Stimulating!