Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Kudos
We both know much of that is entire speculation, at best.
UK is a net importer. Germany will be clamouring to keep certification equal. All outside EU manufacturers have no problems meeting eu standards.
I don't think anyone is qualified to say what young adults want, most I know want beer, drugs and sex. What they need is education and jobs. Saying they want integration is a platitude expressing your own wishes. Ofcourse they,ll accept our standards as long as we accept theirs. I,m not pro stay or leave but fact is now we are leaving we should stop pedalling the Osbourne election rhetoric .

 

[Kudoscycles]

With Putin flexing his muscle in Kalinagrad and eastern Crimea,wouldn't a European Army be a good idea at the moment...our own defence forces appear to be very weak and Trump is suggesting that he doesn't want to support NATO to the same extent as in the past.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Kudos
We both know much of that is entire speculation, at best.
UK is a net importer. Germany will be clamouring to keep certification equal. All outside EU manufacturers have no problems meeting eu standards.
I don't think anyone is qualified to say what young adults want, most I know want beer, drugs and sex. What they need is education and jobs. Saying they want integration is a platitude expressing your own wishes. Ofcourse they,ll accept our standards as long as we accept theirs. I,m not pro stay or leave but fact is now we are leaving we should stop pedalling the Osbourne election rhetoric .

I am currently involved with a Chinese manufacturer who is struggling to get a product through the EU standards,the product already has US and UK standards but the Europeans are using the standards to unreasonably stop the product being sold in Europe.
It is a foresight of the obstacles that the EU can invent after we trigger Article 50.
Sad that you feel that all young adults want is beer,drugs and sex....I see that you are based in France which has many social problems,will the election improve that.?
My current experience of young people is that most voted to Remain because they like the idea of free movement of people. My own son is currently working as a pilot in Poland,flying Brits and Poles mainly back n forth to the UK,he has many wonderful multi national friends.
I hope these bright young people are the future,not the trash young thugs who are going round hating our European friends.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Kudos
We both know much of that is entire speculation, at best.
UK is a net importer. Germany will be clamouring to keep certification equal. All outside EU manufacturers have no problems meeting eu standards.
I don't think anyone is qualified to say what young adults want, most I know want beer, drugs and sex. What they need is education and jobs. Saying they want integration is a platitude expressing your own wishes. Ofcourse they,ll accept our standards as long as we accept theirs. I,m not pro stay or leave but fact is now we are leaving we should stop pedalling the Osbourne election rhetoric .

Are we leaving?
It appears to me and those memo notes would support that Theresa May has not a clue how to proceed with Brexit and every day a new obstacle presents itself that makes leaving look less likely.
She looks a floundering PM who is out of her depth.
Osborne and Cameron were idiots in the way the Remain campaign was presented. Much of the economic damage they threatened will happen but not immediately,spring next year will be when most of the price rises will be actioned...I am holding off implementing price rises,some will be 30%,because I want to clear Christmas....most retailers have sufficient stock to clear,bought at old $ levels.
I am not convinced that we are leaving.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

When people felt empowered to tick the Leave vote I don't think anyone understood the far reaching effects of Brexit.
If the EU won't let us have access to the CE standards we will have to revert to the old British standards. That means that many UK products will have to be tested to the British standard,many of these standards are out of date,and those products can then only be sold in the UK,we won't be able to sell our products into Europe unless the EU accepts our standards....I don't blame them not accepting our standards.
I don't think anyone who voted in the referendum ,leaver or remainer,was stupid,they just weren't told the implications of that vote.
Like it or not,we are Europeans more than we are British,we cannot unpick the integration just because 80 fascist/racist Tory Eurosceptic MP's want it otherwise. Our young people want more integration,they are the future and we are being selfish restricting their future.
KudosDave

Hi
The EU will not have any difficulty in allowing UK or Chinese or anyone else creating products conforming to the EU standards. But if any country is outside the EU it does not have any input into those standards. As Zlantan has picked up on, standards are a very simple way of restricting trade. If the UK proceeds in what I consider this folly of brexit, then it loses its place at a table where it is currently welcome and where it's technical competence commands respect. The UK will not be party to the formation of changes and will therefore be playing catch-up all the time. A simple case in point and germane to this forum is that there is discussion on redesigning the connectors for bike battery packs

The EU would like to standardise a large number of processes , but it is national government s who for a variety of national self interests slow down the process . The EU has a principle of subsidiary......look it up , which means that decisions be made at the most local level possible.
Why does the uk use a different plug top than the European norm, it is no safer. Why does the uk and Ireland drive on the left and not on the right. , It is no safer. Both of these examples are intended as barriers to market entry, and the EU has accepted that as local decisions they are left to the local competent authority.

 

[oldgroaner]

Because like most rulings in eu, individual countries can ignore ( or even alter) rulings/ directives. Some respects this is good but WTF is point of paying all those MEP,s , civil servants in Brussels for countries to then pick and chose what they want..There is precious little standardisation except on paper. ( Great example is car/ motorbike roadworthiness , compare our standards with France, Germany, Greece, Spain....all utterly different. Efforts have made made to sort it for 15 years...france still refuse to introduce MOT (tva) for motorbikes. (but had a 100 bhp ( imperial unit !!!) limit , which I believe has recently been waived)Testing in Greece ( for licenses ) is almost none existent. Trailers over 500kg have to be registered in many eu countries ( attracting MOTs or equivalent and number plates) but not in ours...To say EU has been in existence since 72 (?? does it exist?) the situation is barmy...If its not unified by now it never will be...so what's the point...

Interesting that you are arguing from the opposite standpoint of the leave control, who maintain that we should leave and "Take back control" yet your view is that we are not getting our money's worth because of a lack of control by the EU.
Perhaps the problem is not with the EU but nationalistic attitudes in the member states after all?

 

[oldgroaner]

Kudos
We both know much of that is entire speculation, at best.
UK is a net importer. Germany will be clamouring to keep certification equal. All outside EU manufacturers have no problems meeting eu standards.
I don't think anyone is qualified to say what young adults want, most I know want beer, drugs and sex. What they need is education and jobs. Saying they want integration is a platitude expressing your own wishes. Ofcourse they,ll accept our standards as long as we accept theirs. I,m not pro stay or leave but fact is now we are leaving we should stop pedalling the Osbourne election rhetoric .

Interesting that two separate attitudes appear in that post, on the one hand the assertive
"Saying they want integration is a platitude expressing your own wishes"
And on the other
"Germany will be clamouring" is also a platitude expressing your own wishes.?
It is not a proven fact.
A little more consistency I.M.H.O might be a good thing

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Telegraph Norman Tebbitt has this to say
"
Britain has descended into a Seventies-style swamp. Theresa May needs to be like Maggie to sort it out "
He nearly got it right it just needs a little work as in
Britain is about to enter into a Seventies-style swamp. Theresa May needs to be like almost anyone else but Maggie to sort it out

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Mail this morning
"KATIE HOPKINS: I came to Cuba a commie-hater ready to bury Castro, so why have I ended up praising him as a dictator whose people are in some ways freer than we are?

Very odd for this newspaper, though the sight of a nation that has been moulded by eternal animosity and internal propaganda having been so visibly altered to worship a "Messiah" figure can hardly do other than cheer the right wing soul, can it?
After all it doesn't matter whether the Politics are right or left, just or tyrannical, it is control of the public that counts to the right wing.
The reader's comments are off the scale in antipathy to her article.
Are they losing empathy with the readership?
Note the last line attempt to infer we have lost sovereignty to outsiders.

 

[Zlatan]

Well at least you 4or 5 remainers have managed to reply to my reply without resorting to insult.
OG You insist in quoting things posters did not say. You read a post and literally make things up !
Not repeating myself...just go back to post 100 replies ago.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I,m not pro stay or leave but fact is now we are leaving we should stop pedalling the Osbourne election rhetoric .

I'm afraid that's simply not a fact.

One fact is that the public have voted to leave in a referendum that was advisory.

Now as a parliamentary democracy, its up to parliament to decide what's best for the country, based on a whole load of factors... public opinion being one of them.

So two other facts spring to mind:

1) Opinions are often wrong, especially when education about the topic is poor, and;

2) opinions always change with time.

So that's 3 facts that show that we most definitely are not definitely leaving the EU.

 

[Izzyekerslike]

This doesn't surprise me Tom, and I don't think it's connected with the education system.

As convenient as the metric system is to work with, its great failing is not being related to human scale. Take 5'6" and 168 cm.

The comparison I draw is this. If I throw 168 identical items onto the ground and ask you how many, you'll have to count them. But if I throw 5 or 6 items down you won't have to, a glance and you'll instantly recognise five or six in your minds eye. For the same reasons it easy to sum up a small number of feet and inches

It's because it's in human scale, our imperial measures grew out of practical daily usages, not from an arbitrary section of the earth's circumferance.

Some years ago I conducted a small experiment with a
batch of people like myself who grew up with Imperial measure, and a group of youngish Australian adults who had only ever known metric.

The experiment was to guess the three dimensions of a wide variety of boxes of different sizes, only using sight. I had half expected the outcome, but the result shook even me. Those using imperial were by a huge margin far more accurate than those using metric.

I had the opportunity to repeat this years later on a much smaller scale with just two metric users and myself and another used to imperial. The results were clearly the same, the larger the number of units necessary to guess the size, the disproportionally greater the error.

The fact is we like the ease of single or at least smaller numbers, 8 gallons to fill up feels more friendly than 37 litres, 8 miles rather than 13 kilometres etc.
.

Except when climbing hills where 3000ft of ascent sound much better than 914 metres. (approx.)

 

[derf]

From the Mail this morning
"KATIE HOPKINS: I came to Cuba a commie-hater ready to bury Castro, so why have I ended up praising him as a dictator whose people are in some ways freer than we are?

Very odd for this newspaper, though the sight of a nation that has been moulded by eternal animosity and internal propaganda having been so visibly altered to worship a "Messiah" figure can hardly do other than cheer the right wing soul, can it?
After all it doesn't matter whether the Politics are right or left, just or tyrannical, it is control of the public that counts to the right wing.
The reader's comments are off the scale in antipathy to her article.
Are they losing empathy with the readership?
Note the last line attempt to infer we have lost sovereignty to outsiders.

the thing that I find most upsetting (note, I'm not being rude), is the contrived inferences, as you point out, the attempts to influence the readers, electorate - infuse them with xenophobia. it's the kind of disingenuous /manipulating/politicking that made voters choose this cluster cockup that is brexit

 

[oldgroaner]

Well at least you 4or 5 remainers have managed to reply to kudos without resorting to insult.
OG You insist in quoting things posters did not say. You read a post and literally make things up !
Not repeating myself...just go back to post 100 replies ago.

Do I ? or is it that you persist in not understanding the meaning of things you write perhaps?
The post 100 replies ago no 7195 was written by homeoz, so as usual you are not really being clear
Tell me what are you referring to?

 

[oldtom]

If the UK proceeds in what I consider this folly of brexit, then it loses its place at a table where it is currently welcome and where it's technical competence commands respect. The UK will not be party to the formation of changes and will therefore be playing catch-up all the time.

Ah yeah but!.......yeah........well, no actually; I can't find anything to argue about in your post at all, 'Danidl'. I'm sure some others would though.

I remember the soundbite, not all that long ago, from several 'distinguished' politicians that it was imperative that the UK should not only be in the EU, we should be at the centre of it.

While no sane person would be so presumptuous as to declare that the EU is a perfect institution, it does operate along business lines within a kind of socialist framework with a better redistribution of wealth than many individual governments have ever managed.

Notwithstanding the obvious difficulties of operating a parliamentary system where many different tongues are spoken, I think that of the EU, while appearing more complex than that of Westminster, is probably more sensible ultimately. Given the world's current structures, the global marketplace and the emergence of further, powerful, Asian trading groups, I believe the best place for the UK is within the European Union where our country has a voice and a vote as well as straightforward access to a massive customer base and easy import arrangements.

There is plenty of room for improvement in the way the EU does business - the curiosity of the removal of the whole shebang regularly between Brussels and Strasbourg needs to be re-thought. The cost of the operation, while a drop in the ocean of the EU's income, could be better used, I'm sure. I have never actually seen the point of that exercise and no-one has ever attempted to explain it to me.

There may well be a whole list of improvements which would benefit the EU's administrative processes but unless the UK is represented there and able to express opinions, move progress and play a full part in discussions, we will never be able to bring about change.

Ultimately, should we proceed further along this journey towards oblivion, I believe we will miss the EU far more than the EU will miss the UK.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Do I ? or is it that you persist in not understanding the meaning of things you write perhaps?
The post 100 replies ago no 7195 was written by homeoz, so as usual you are not really being clear
Tell me what are you referring to?

By the way, I know this might be hard to understand, but using terms like
"Well at least you 4or 5 remainers have managed to reply to kudos without resorting to insult."
Remainers being a stereotype that fits rather badly in my case as I think it important that we leave and see how the experiment goes.
There doesn't seem to be a stereotype for "Don't Care" non voters like yourself, though no doubt at some point one will emerge as a term of endearment? or perhaps not?
Referring to us using a stereotype Is hardly going to be described as anything other than pompous and condescending, is it?
But then, you wouldn't know, he said,( using exactly the same denigrating tone.
In an attempt to get the point across)
I.M.H.O. of course!

 

[oldgroaner]

Except when climbing hills where 3000ft of ascent sound much better than 914 metres. (approx.)

Either sign would have me consulting the EBike manual to see how far up it Battery assist would fail!

 

[oldgroaner]

By the way, I know this might be hard to understand, but using terms like
"Well at least you 4or 5 remainers have managed to reply to kudos without resorting to insult."
Is hardly going to be described as anything other than pompous and condescending, is it?
But then, you wouldn't know, he said,( using exactly the same denigrating tone.
In an attempt to get the point across)
I.M.H.O. of course!

Being mad means I am allowed to answer my own posts by the way.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ah yeah but!.......yeah........well, no actually; I can't find anything to argue about in your post at all, 'Danidl'. I'm sure some others would though.

I remember the soundbite, not all that long ago, from several 'distinguished' politicians that it was imperative that the UK should not only be in the EU, we should be at the centre of it.

While no sane person would be so presumptuous as to declare that the EU is a perfect institution, it does operate along business lines within a kind of socialist framework with a better redistribution of wealth than many individual governments have ever managed.

Notwithstanding the obvious difficulties of operating a parliamentary system where many different tongues are spoken, I think that of the EU, while appearing more complex than that of Westminster, is probably more sensible ultimately. Given the world's current structures, the global marketplace and the emergence of further, powerful, Asian trading groups, I believe the best place for the UK is within the European Union where our country has a voice and a vote as well as straightforward access to a massive customer base and easy import arrangements.

There is plenty of room for improvement in the way the EU does business - the curiosity of the removal of the whole shebang regularly between Brussels and Strasbourg needs to be re-thought. The cost of the operation, while a drop in the ocean of the EU's income, could be better used, I'm sure. I have never actually seen the point of that exercise and no-one has ever attempted to explain it to me.

There may well be a whole list of improvements which would benefit the EU's administrative processes but unless the UK is represented there and able to express opinions, move progress and play a full part in discussions, we will never be able to bring about change.

Ultimately, should we proceed further along this journey towards oblivion, I believe we will miss the EU far more than the EU will miss the UK.

Tom

If you follow the logic of Brexit, the logical end point will be that we accept it was all a mistake from the start, walk back to Africa to go back to living in trees.

 

[Zlatan]

Being mad means I am allowed to answer my own posts by the way.

And every fecker elses.