Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

The solution is obvious,let parliament have a vote on the single market,if MP's vote to retain the single market then May and the Brexiters are free to go off to negotiate people movement and sovereignty,we all know then what Brexit means.
As mentioned previously yes to the single market was part of the Tory manifesto and this is also in line with Boris's 'we can have our cake and eat it'
Do Leavers have a problem with such a parliament vote....simply 'SHOULD WE STAY IN THE SINGLE MARKET?.....free vote.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

I'd say yes. There is no good reason to leave the Single Market. A lot of people have pointed out that leaving the EU involves opting out of FOM and the ECJ. However, whenever you have a trade agreement, you have to have a supranational Court to resolve disputes. So why not the ECJ. As for FOM, it never was the subject of the referendum and it's going to be revised soon, with or without the UK, to reflect the reality of anti-EU sentiments elsewhere.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The whole freedom of movement thing in the real EU (I have never included you lot in that) is the leaky borders in the south letting in economical and war refugees, it has nothing to do with legal residents of the EU moving about from country to country. And Brussels isn't doing a whole lot to help Greece cope with this problem on top of the others it already has it seems seen from here. On top of the south we now have masses at the eastern borders as well. All is well however, Hungary and Austria are keeping the razor wire manufacturers happy!

 

[Kudoscycles]

David Smith in the Sunday Times considers that the £ is undervalued against both the dollar and euro.According to the 10 year average the dollar /pound should be 1.64 and the euro 1.37.
There is another measure called Feers-fundamental equilibrium exchange rates....the pound should be 1.52 and the euro 1.26.
At dollar 1.24 and euro 1.11 looks very undervalued.
There only needs to be a whiff that Theresa May is abandoning her option to quit the single market and the undervalued pound will be bought by speculators and rocket north.
I read that Lichenstein has an agreement with the EU that allows it access to the single market and have a restriction on immigrants and both Hungary and Austria are currently being fined by the EU for not taking enough immigrants so there are control examples elsewhere.
KudosDave

 

[derf]

Sadly far too many do, judged from the referendum outcome it's not far off the majority.

Many leavers insisted they were not racist, but one didn't have to dig far for it to be revealed as a base motivation.
.

listened to farage defend trump
http://news.sky.com/video/farage-defends-trumps-alpha-male-boasting-10610958
don't want to engage in moral posturing, am sure we all have fantasy lives we don't share publicly, but there does seem to be something quite odd happening to the world. I'm sure we all feel outsiders some of the time, but this is unreal. im beginning to feel like Bernard in brave new world or Winston in 1984.

 

[oldgroaner]

listened to farage defend trump
http://news.sky.com/video/farage-defends-trumps-alpha-male-boasting-10610958
don't want to engage in moral posturing, am sure we all have fantasy lives we don't share publicly, but there does seem to be something quite odd happening to the world. I'm sure we all feel outsiders some of the time, but this is unreal. im beginning to feel like Bernard in brave new world or Winston in 1984.

No it's just fascism turning over in its grave because we have forgotten how poisonous it is.
We have been here before.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[trex]

I blame the celebrity culture and low standard of civic education.

 

[derf]

No it's just fascism turning over in its grave because we have forgotten how poisonous it is.
We have been here before.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I blame the celebrity culture and low standard of civic education.

but one cant help wondering what one has to do to not be popular in the UK/USA/be eligible for high office? rape, public bestiality, necrophilia? they said previously trump would do anything for publicity (that there wasn't anything such as bad publicity), have a hunch a vast segment of the electorate would find all of that entirely understandable in a prime minster/president

 

[oldgroaner]

I blame the celebrity culture and low standard of civic education.

Ironically better education has not improved the species, without attention being paid to the social skills, and providing worthwhile occupations, concentrating on merely making individuals more competitive rather than cooperative,in many ways has encouraged greed , insecurity and jealousy.
Many more are highly educated these days, but short on hope or wisdom.
It is all too easy to play to their weaknesses and get them to commit to foolish and self destructive acts.
What do you expect when you churn out graduates from the universities and then having given them big ideas, set them to serving big macs and fries?
All you have to do is direct their anger at a bogey man of choice.
And of course that goes double for the unfortunates who didn't get a decent education but are exposed to the lifestyles of celebrities who contribute nothing to society?
Divide and rule, and demonize a vulnerable minority, standard Tory policy.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[trex]

it seems the battle line is now drawn between the ordinary man or woman, and the elite. If you have a degree, you are probably elite.
Political corectness is definitely elitist.

 

[Kudoscycles]

May,the dictator, refuses parliament to have a vote of the form Brexit will take...she realises that parliament will probably refuse the option of quitting the single market and that will take away the principal negotiating weapon she has of contra that with restriction on people movement.
But even an MP who voted Leave,considers that undemocratic,see the following statement from Tory MP,Stephen Phillips....I wonder how many other Leaver MP's think similarly....
Mr Phillips accused the Prime Minister of adopting a "fundamentally undemocratic, unconstitutional" approach to leaving the the EU.

In a letter to House of Commons speaker John Bercow he wrote: "I and many others did not exercise our vote in the referendum so as to restore the sovereignty of this Parliament only to see what we regarded as the tyranny of the European Union replaced by that of a government that apparently wishes to ignore the view of the house on the most important issue facing the nation."

He added that the Government has "no authority or mandate to adopt a negotiating position without reference to the wishes of the house and those of the British people expressed through their elected representatives."

Mr Phillips' intervention is significant because he campaigned for the UK to leave the European Union.

MPs from both sides are increasing pressure on Mrs May for a vote in the House of Commons on the terms of Brexit.

Former Conservative ministers Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan, both remain campaigners, have joined with the Lib Dem Brexit spokesman Nick Clegg and former Labour leader Ed Miliband calling for MPs to have their say.

Can May refuse parliament a vote on the terms of Brexit?

KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

The elephant in the room regarding sovereignty is where parliament has not understood the so called expressed will of the people.
What huge numbers of brexit voters wanted wasn't parliamentary sovereignty but that of the the public over it.
They were protesting about abuse of the authority they had invested in the government ,using the ploy of attacking something it clearly wanted.
In this unthinking state of mind they will I suspect be quite determined to see a hard brexit to "spite" them.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[trex]

you should wacth Keir Starmer replying to David Davis on BBC news at the moment.

Stephen Gethins, SNP MP
"We don't know if it's a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit but we do know it's a dog's Brexit":

 

[Izzyekerslike]

Well I don't know about you, but I'm excited. Not only is Strickly looking likely to be a corker this year, Mrs May has made good too!

Not much humour on this thread..

 

[oldgroaner]

And now the madwoman is going right over the edge of reason
"
Theresa May vows to protect troops from 'legal witch hunt' by opting out of European human rights rules"
So now we can get away with a complete disregard for any attempt at the "civilised" use of force?
Shooting civilians is an Atrocity?certainly no problem go right ahead.
Insanity.
Lower and lower we go, now our soldiers will be free to murder and torture at will.
No better than the SS

So someone disagrees hmm? obviously didn't see the video of our troops driving a young boy into a river even though he protested he couldn't swim, and walking away laughing as he was swept away and drowned?
Perhaps you think they deserve a medal?

 

[oldgroaner]

you should wacth Keir Starmer replying to David Davis on BBC news at the moment.

Stephen Gethins, SNP MP
"We don't know if it's a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit but we do know it's a dog's Brexit":

And not lied about what was really going on from the very Wedding Day?

 

[Izzyekerslike]

And now the madwoman is going right over the edge of reason
I don't believe what you have just stated and you need to withdraw your idiotic comment that our British troops are no better than the SS. The comment is disgraceful and untrue. If you do not withdraw it and remove the posting I intend to circulate it on Facebook and then woe betide you!
"
Theresa May vows to protect troops from 'legal witch hunt' by opting out of European human rights rules"
So now we can get away with a complete disregard for any attempt at the "civilised" use of force?
Shooting civilians is an Atrocity?certainly no problem go right ahead.
Insanity.
Lower and lower we go, now our soldiers will be free to murder and torture at will.
No better than the SS

 

[oldgroaner]

An example of Brexit stupidity in the Express
"
PM’s plan to adopt EU laws blasted as ‘great Brexit betrayal’ by furious fishermen"
If these idiot fishermen had bothered to check they would find out that the UK Government PROPOSED this particular law to conserve fish stocks.

 

[flecc]

.

You seem to have messed up this post, what I think is your comment placed within Old Groaner's quotation.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ill help with that post
"
And now the madwoman is going right over the edge of reason
I don't believe what you have just stated and you need to withdraw your idiotic comment that our British troops are no better than the SS. The comment is disgraceful and untrue. If you do not withdraw it and remove the posting I intend to circulate it on Facebook and then woe betide you!
"
Theresa May vows to protect troops from 'legal witch hunt' by opting out of European human rights rules"
So now we can get away with a complete disregard for any attempt at the "civilised" use of force?
Shooting civilians is an Atrocity?certainly no problem go right ahead.
Insanity.
Lower and lower we go, now our soldiers will be free to murder and torture at will.
No better than the SS
This is a hypothetical view of a possible situation.
Are you able to understand that?
Now then, perhaps you should read my post again, and attempt to understand it before making childish threats?.
I did NOT say our soldiers are no better than the SS did I?
Are you going to post your lie on Facebook?
"
I don't believe what you have just stated and you need to withdraw your idiotic comment that our British troops are no better than the SS.
If you do not withdraw it and remove the posting I intend to circulate it on Facebook and then woe betide you! "

No my friend, you are the one who needs to withdraw that comment as it is a BLATANT LIE that you have made up.
I didn't say that about our troops, but you have stated that I did.
If you cannot understand the difference, why are you posting and making threats?
If I was you I would tender an apology immediately.
Or if you prefer I will post it on facebook myself and refer to your comment and attribute it to you regarding my posting?