Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I think you meant to say, "non... close the door on your way out, I have rather a delicate telephone call to make. I am going to lay off 25% of the German car industry and I'd like a little privacy whilst I do it."

That's a gross exaggeration! Most of their 6 million cars production is sold elsewhere in the world, the 342,000 proportion to the UK being 5.7% on the last figures. The market fluctuates more than that!

Given Germany's undoubted abilities, they will make up that small loss elsewhere, even assuming the unlikely event that they can sell no cars here after Brexit.
.

 

[lectureral]

I think you meant to say, "non... close the door on your way out, I have rather a delicate telephone call to make. I am going to lay off 25% of the German car industry and I'd like a little privacy whilst I do it."

What Brexiters don't get is that the EU will respond in a political manner rather than an economic one. Just as the Leavers are happy to write "good riddance" in the comments when some company announces that it may up sticks, so the EU will take the economic hit for the principle of the EU. It is greatly against the EU's interest to give the UK a good deal. That's been obvious from well before the referendum vote.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think you meant to say, "non... close the door on your way out, I have rather a delicate telephone call to make. I am going to lay off 25% of the German car industry and I'd like a little privacy whilst I do it."

Still dreaming, tillson? By now their plans are already in operation and as the brexit voters say they have
"Got over it" where we still have no plan.

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[trex]

someone suggested that the current low value of the Pound reflects less the fear of a hard brexit but of a 'Fawlty' brexit, Britain returning to the state it was in before joining the EU.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-markets-are-terrified-of-a-fawlty-brexit-2016-10-07

Many of the people who voted for Brexit voted for “Good Brexit.” But many others are nativists who want to go back to the “good old days” when the Brits didn’t have to compete with hard-working Poles because the Poles weren’t allowed in.

 

[flecc]

Seeing this photo and its implications really highlights the idiocy of Brexit.

Back then and before, the Spanish lived in Spain and the British in Britain, and the similar went for most of the EU countries, all very simple.

Now we all live and work in each other's countries in vast numbers, and being multi-lingingual is commonplace.

What's done is done and can't be undone.
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[Kudoscycles]

May,Rudd and Fox are sending signals to Europe and the rest of the world that we are a very racist and xenophobic country,there has always been extreme National Front attitudes from a minority,but Rudd's speech about shaming companies who employ largely EU,Fox's comment about using the EU workers as a bargaining chip and May's prioritising immigration control is giving racism official approval from the top.
Do the majority of the U.K. have sympathies with these views are the majority racist?
KudosDave

 

[derf]

May,Rudd and Fox are sending signals to Europe and the rest of the world that we are a very racist and xenophobic country,there has always been extreme National Front attitudes from a minority,but Rudd's speech about shaming companies who employ largely EU,Fox's comment about using the EU workers as a bargaining chip and May's prioritising immigration control is giving racism official approval from the top.
Do the majority of the U.K. have sympathies with these views are the majority racist?
KudosDave

at best it says to the world we are a bunch of serial losers who have to resort to protectionism to survive in a globalised economy because we are too thick, unproductive, unoriginal to survive on our own merit.

 

[flecc]

Do the majority of the U.K. have sympathies with these views are the majority racist?
KudosDave

Sadly far too many do, judged from the referendum outcome it's not far off the majority.

Many leavers insisted they were not racist, but one didn't have to dig far for it to be revealed as a base motivation.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The world trade deal that Fox is most proud of is a free trade deal with China...surely they must realise that taking down the import tariffs and anti dumping duties would take away the last obstacle to China flooding the UK with cheap goods.
One of my bicycle suppliers from China has already started to enquire that if we left the EU would Kudos be interested in buying bicycles(currently 68% import duties) as well as e-bikes,they have an entry level bike at 50 dollars,this will destroy what is left of the U.K. bicycle industry.
If that happens the EU will look at the UK as a satellite of China and erect the same tariffs and anti dumping duties between the UK and the EU,that will inevitably restrict UK manufactured product as well as Chinese, a trade route that we currently enjoy tariff free.
Don't forget our car assembly industry is completely foreign owned,if tariffs were erected on cars shipped from the UK to EU then the UK auto industry would not have a purpose other than to satisfy the UK. If Fox removed any import tariffs from China to the UK then logic would say that the auto manufacturers would use the cheaper and massive assembly plants in China and ship to satisfy the relatively small UK market and close all the UK auto assembly factories.
Is Fox stupid or just ill advised?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Is Fox stupid or just ill advised?
KudosDave

sadly both.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The Leave voters I am surprised that voted Leave were the Nissan workers from Sunderland or the farmers,surely they must have understood the implications of a Leave vote?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

it's not so much a question that voters did not understand the implications, they have also to take into account other issues that preoccupy them at the time of the vote. If we were to re-run the same referendum now, the outcome may be the opposite. Then, a lot of people (including myself) believed we could have our cake and eat it. Although most already knew that the EU cares more about political union than economics, we thought surely they have more to lose than us slapping tariff on our exports of Nissan cars to the EU. Referenda force complex issues into simplified positions whose values depend greatly on the situation at the time of the vote.

 

[anotherkiwi]

My experience of racism in the UK is a bit dated but back then my feeling was much more racist than NZ, probably less than the US and definitely less than Australia (farmers could shoot aboriginals crossing their land unpunished until the late '60s!).

I think the isolation of living on an island has a lot to play in your bad relationship with the rest of Europe. I can relate to that mentality because I was born on an island myself. I hated it and ran away, I was drawn to Europe where you can change countries by jumping on your bike and riding for 20 minutes. I live on a border where three different peoples have been mingling for many centuries. The last great mass migration here was when Franco's navy shelled Irun in the civil war, only the elderly, women and children were allowed to flee by walking across a bridge called... "Le Pont de l'Europe".

The Guardian piece about EU citizenship being lost is very well written. There is also a reality check on Europe and migration - internal migration has never been a problem for the rest of the EU, it is the external migration which is putting a strain on the open border system. Migration of people bombed out of their homes once again, how much we have learned since WWII! How advanced and intelligent the human race has become since then.

 

[oldgroaner]

The world trade deal that Fox is most proud of is a free trade deal with China...surely they must realise that taking down the import tariffs and anti dumping duties would take away the last obstacle to China flooding the UK with cheap goods.
One of my bicycle suppliers from China has already started to enquire that if we left the EU would Kudos be interested in buying bicycles(currently 68% import duties) as well as e-bikes,they have an entry level bike at 50 dollars,this will destroy what is left of the U.K. bicycle industry.
If that happens the EU will look at the UK as a satellite of China and erect the same tariffs and anti dumping duties between the UK and the EU,that will inevitably restrict UK manufactured product as well as Chinese, a trade route that we currently enjoy tariff free.
Don't forget our car assembly industry is completely foreign owned,if tariffs were erected on cars shipped from the UK to EU then the UK auto industry would not have a purpose other than to satisfy the UK. If Fox removed any import tariffs from China to the UK then logic would say that the auto manufacturers would use the cheaper and massive assembly plants in China and ship to satisfy the relatively small UK market and close all the UK auto assembly factories.
Is Fox stupid or just ill advised?
KudosDave

The question is what could such an agreement do for us? We have nothing to sell the Chinese that they need sufficient to make up for the damage their dumping cheap and inferior goods on is would do.
Someone is doing this deal for reasons of their own not those of the nation.

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[trex]

Study found that 6 per cent of Leave voters had regrets about the way they voted, while only 1 per cent of Remainers had.

hard brexit would increase the number of brexit regretters, may be enough to remove the tories from power at the next elections.

 

[trex]

simple truths?

“The currency is now the de facto official opposition to the government’s policies.”
(The Guardian)

that and the fact that Mrs May is frightened of her brexit ministers.

 

[flecc]

simple truths?



that and the fact that Mrs May is frightened of her brexit ministers.

Whilst true, she shouldn't be, since they are riding for a fall.

The one who's lost the most is Boris Johnson. From being the darling of so many (deluded) people in this country and a potential future prime minister, the referendum result, its outcomes and his subsequent behaviour have badly damaged his prospects of ever being treated seriously again.

Many now realise for the first time that he doesn't just act the fool, he actually is one.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Whilst true, she shouldn't be, since they are riding for a fall.

The one who's lost the most is Boris Johnson. From being the darling of so many (deluded) people in this country and a potential future prime minister, the referendum result, its outcomes and his subsequent behaviour have badly damaged his prospects of ever being treated seriously again.

Many now realise for the first time that he doesn't just act the fool, he actually is one.
.

The ultimate simple truth is that the Westminster parliament is unfit to govern, when all it is capable of is bowing to a PR disaster of its own making, heading the country over a fiscal cliff, ignoring the warning signs.


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[trex]

MPs demand vote on hard brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/08/mps-demand-vote-hard-brexit-single-market

Ed Milliband is more than a match for Mrs May.

 

[Kudoscycles]

MPs demand vote on hard brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/08/mps-demand-vote-hard-brexit-single-market

Ed Milliband is more than a match for Mrs May.

There is also an article in the Guardian from Lord Kerr,who was the guy who drafted Article 50.
He thought that the referendum did not give May and the Brexiters a referendum to leave the single market and that parliament should accept the advisory nature of the vote but not to the extent of damaging our economy nor reducing the UK living standards.
It was in the Tory manifesto that the result of the referendum should not take us out of the single market,May has ignored that.
Jonathan Freedland had an article that questioned who was championing the views of the 16 million Remainers and those Leavers who now think 'I didn't vote for all of this'
It looks like the Remain MP's are finally gathering their forces,the likes of Ed Milliband,Ken Clarke,Anna Soubry,Nicola Sturgeon,Caroline Lucas are tabling questions to May as to the shape of Brexit and wanting parliament to vote before Article 50 is triggered....not sure about the arithmetic but I have a feeling that parliament Remainers exceed Leavers.
I think most Tory MP's would vote in line with May to keep the party together but only if we could retain access to the single market. If her Great Repeal Act is voted down that would be the end of May and the Brexiters and the end of Brexit.
The Tory conference and May/Rudd's xenophobic speeches were as good as Brexit will get,they now face a real battle to get hard Brexit through parliament for soft Brexit won't satisfy the Leavers,the arguments will get nasty over the next few months.
Rudd's speech about naming and shaming businesses that employ largely EU workers,absolutely disgust me,straight out of 'Mein Kampf'....will she employ brownshirts to spray 'POLE' outside such businesses,even if I had voted Leave I didn't vote for that.
I thought Theresa May would unify the Tory party and pursue a Brexit that would be an amicable split from the EU,I never dreamt that this whole Brexit experiment would go to her head and she would turn into a dictator using Brexit as the conduit to further her political ambitions.
She has put herself in the position of 'Mrs Brexit',if she fails to deliver hard Brexit then she fails....that is, for all of the world,a very dangerous pinnacle she has put herself upon.
KudosDave