OG, that's Norway Plus, that potentially can keep both sides of the referendum together. I think 7 years not enough though. There should be a mechanism that we can pay the EU to keep control on EU immigration, eg participation into an EU wide JSA scheme.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Sorry Flud but you only speak from a personal viewpoint, there is nothing insidious about the the EU heading towards a United States of Europe, as Churchill himself declared
"
What is this sovereign remedy?
It is to re-create the European Family, or as much of it as we can, and provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom.
We must build a kind of United States of Europe.
In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living.
The process is simple."
Except perhaps to you
This is the inevitable future not "insidious" simply logical.
As is so often said around here "Get over it."
Better still forget all this nonsense and just carry on as before, we were doing better than we are now or are likely to do in the future, and for what?
Nothing of value, that we haven't already got.
If you think about i, if they have accepted the idea that free movement is negotiable what else is left of the Brexit argument?
Lord Ashcroft ran a survey with this interesting result
"One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”"
So bang goes the 4% leave majority?
What is the point of it now?
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If the free unchecked movement of people within the EU is such a good idea and some on here view checking as being racist, why are the French now causing a massive backlog of travellers in Dover whilst they carry out checks on people entering the country? Are they being racist? Should the French be booted out of the EU for this behaviour? Also, how can this be right when we are told that Merkel's open invitation to hundreds of thousands of unchecked refugees and migrants to enter Europe was a good idea?
What I think the French are doing at Dover is a very good idea, an excellent precaution and if I were in the queue, I would understand and accept the delay. This is the world we now live in. What I also think this illustrates is the lunacy of the policy of free & unchecked movement of people and the EU's mule like stubbornness to accept this.
What I think the French are doing at Dover is a very good idea, an excellent precaution and if I were in the queue, I would understand and accept the delay. This is the world we now live in. What I also think this illustrates is the lunacy of the policy of free & unchecked movement of people and the EU's mule like stubbornness to accept this.
I find the situation facing those trying to cross the English channel in vehicles absolutely disgraceful but some of the comments published by the government news provider are extraordinary.
For example: 'Kent Police said it would "proactively" manage traffic to ease congestion.'
Really! How does that work then?
Then this.......'Security checks at the Port of Dover were relaxed around lunchtime on Saturday to help speed up the process but police advised travellers to pack plenty of food and water and consider making alternative travel arrangements.'
It seems that those British calling loudly for more stringent border controls to curb immigration think travelling across borders is a one-way street. As the French have necessarily tightened their entry checking processes, British people headed in that direction don't like it. Well, to state the obvious, crossing frontiers is a two-way street. Am I the only one to see the irony?
It has always amused me to hear the complaints about our incoming border security arrangements, the suggestion being that they don't really exist and people are simply walking through unchallenged. What that is really about is thousands of self-employed plumbers, sparks, chippies and plasterers who take exception to eastern European workers coming into the UK and performing building work cheaper than their rip-off prices.
Those are the same people who don't pay anything like the tax they should and vote tory as they know they can get away with it because nobody checks any more. They don't care who pays for the NHS so long as they don't but they do use it. Apart from that, does anyone know any British, self-employed builder who work more than a four and a half day week? The Polish guys have a great work ethic and seem prepared to work all the hours in the day including Friday afternoons to make some money.
Here's the article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36877177
Tom
For example: 'Kent Police said it would "proactively" manage traffic to ease congestion.'
Really! How does that work then?
Then this.......'Security checks at the Port of Dover were relaxed around lunchtime on Saturday to help speed up the process but police advised travellers to pack plenty of food and water and consider making alternative travel arrangements.'
It seems that those British calling loudly for more stringent border controls to curb immigration think travelling across borders is a one-way street. As the French have necessarily tightened their entry checking processes, British people headed in that direction don't like it. Well, to state the obvious, crossing frontiers is a two-way street. Am I the only one to see the irony?
It has always amused me to hear the complaints about our incoming border security arrangements, the suggestion being that they don't really exist and people are simply walking through unchallenged. What that is really about is thousands of self-employed plumbers, sparks, chippies and plasterers who take exception to eastern European workers coming into the UK and performing building work cheaper than their rip-off prices.
Those are the same people who don't pay anything like the tax they should and vote tory as they know they can get away with it because nobody checks any more. They don't care who pays for the NHS so long as they don't but they do use it. Apart from that, does anyone know any British, self-employed builder who work more than a four and a half day week? The Polish guys have a great work ethic and seem prepared to work all the hours in the day including Friday afternoons to make some money.
Here's the article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36877177
Tom
How much and which controls ceded to the EU are subject to our own veto, so you may disagree with our government of the day's policy but that is much better than the alternative which is leaving the controls in the hand of simplistic, populistic politicians like Donald J Trump.
It's not sharing controls. This is what they are and the UK has no option but to apply them
can you give me an example of something the EU imposes on us without our government signed up to it in the first place? I don't think you can.
Brexit leaders mislead their supporters on the issue of controls. What they want is to reverse the pooling of controls because they are convinced that the UK is going to be absorbed into an empire led by Germany.
Brexit leaders mislead their supporters on the issue of controls. What they want is to reverse the pooling of controls because they are convinced that the UK is going to be absorbed into an empire led by Germany.
Yes it's an intriguing case of projective identification (hating most in others what one fears most in oneself),the way some in Britain,who obsess about benefits and milking the system in their own lives,try to portray immigrants in their own image.
But we agreed to them in the first place didn't we?
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No the politicians agreed to them without consulting the electorate
.......and can we now have these words rearranged in a order which makes sense? It's like doing one of those word search puzzles.
Merkels rescuing of victims of war isn't the cause of recent terror in Europe (that's been for the record done by EU nationals). You're attempt to conflate the two issues is far beyond disgraceful.
Perhaps you need some basic education twit? After that course of anger management.
You, I or anybody else doesn't know that. The reason is because nobody knows who entered the EU during that crazy period. There may have been no terrorists amongst them and their arrival has had no detrimental effect in terms of security, or there may have been hundreds of terrorist amongst them which now presents a dormant / latent threat. Nobody knows and that very much includes you.
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We have to be careful about boring others about boat talk. I was once storm bound in Port-Vendres,waiting for the wind to subside before going south,it never did subside we just had to go for it,the Pyrenees funnel the wind to the coast,you are in a windy corner there.
I loved the South of France but finding a berth that is reasonable price is impossible,I berthed in marina Port Vell in Barcelona,mainly sailing to the Balearics or went up to Italy,marina Aragai near St Remo.
In the end I got fed up with being ripped off in Antibes, or Baie des Anges so I moved to the Ionian Islands in Greece,I don't regret it,the Greeks are so much friendlier than the French, 50 lovely anchorages in the islands and most harbours are free.
I sailed a Contest 49.
KudosDave
I strongly suspect a vindictive element is present though. If they wished to be thorough one would expect full manning of the checkpoints, but I understand that the French only provided staff for far less than a half of the normal number of checkpoints, a big reduction despite this being a peak travel time when even full staffing would struggle to cope.
That is the main reason for the extraordinarily long delays.
If worker power rather than political, it seems to be a parallel of the situation on Southern Rail where very large numbers of staff are calling in sick in a co-ordinated fashion. This is in order to make the timetable fail completely and embarrass the company in retaliation for a disliked change that the company is making.
.
I am well versed in the English language thank you and educated to a reasonable standard.
I'm also feeling pretty chilled too.
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It did cross my mind that the French were playing games, but the principle of tighter border controls is a sensible one. I took exception to the notion that those calling for these tighter controls are whinging at the delays. I've always said, that these checks apply to everyone, not just certain races of people, and that I would accept the disruption.