Brexit, for once some facts.

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Flecc
Not sure end result is any happier for French house buyers , between notaire and immobilier there will be of order 15% on top of house price, but I do agree French housing is last place to invest money. Also tennants have far more rights so long term rent can be big problems.
The issue of unoccupied houses in France is a massive issue. There are moves afoot tto change causes.( inheritance laws, probate ,unpaid taxes) but at moment there are way more than in UK, which produces other problems. Also French property prices are region dependant just like here. A place becomes a tourist destination and prices shoot up.Village I was the next generation simply could not afford property so they move away.
Its been my experience there is far more collusion between immobiliers, notaires and mare's office. In next village all 3 served time. Immobilier buying agricultural land, mare passing building permis. Notaire turning blind eye..but doubt that's unique to France. ( All 3 chose when to serve sentences ! Allowed time to sort stuff out, start sentence on date of their choosing !! ( within reason I suppose)
" I,ll start mine in 2035" .

If you,ve got cash to invest don't buy a French house...especially post brexit ???!!!

 

[flecc]

Housing has given me a good return and boosted to my retirement plans. I think the property market is a very over inflated bubble though with people borrowing against the increased value of one property to finance the next house purchase. Some people I know have 3 or 4 houses in a lending chain of this nature. When the bubble bursts, it's going to start a chain reaction that can only end in tears. They are seriously exposed to losing everything they have.

Me too, but I would rather not have property seen as an investment or a piggy bank to be raided, both are major factors in creating an unbalanced society.

Like you I can see the current position ending in tears (again).
.

 

[flecc]

Flecc
Not sure end result is any happier for French house buyers , between notaire and immobilier there will be of order 15% on top of house price, but I do agree French housing is last place to invest money. Also tennants have far more rights so long term rent can be big problems.
The issue of unoccupied houses in France is a massive issue. There are moves afoot tto change causes.( inheritance laws, probate ,unpaid taxes) but at moment there are way more than in UK, which produces other problems. Also French property prices are region dependant just like here. A place becomes a tourist destination and prices shoot up.Village I was the next generation simply could not afford property so they move away.
Its been my experience there is far more collusion between immobiliers, notaires and mare's office. In next village all 3 served time. Immobilier buying agricultural land, mare passing building permis. Notaire turning blind eye..but doubt that's unique to France. ( All 3 chose when to serve sentences ! Allowed time to sort stuff out, start sentence on date of their choosing !! ( within reason I suppose)
" I,ll start mine in 2035" .

If you,ve got cash to invest don't buy a French house...especially post brexit ???!!!

I agree, buying property in France can be a nightmare, but as said, it does at least stop them falling into the socially disruptive state our housing market is in. We need to make property ownership far less attractive in the UK and end the mad aim of everyone wanting to be an owner-occupier with many also wanting second properties as income investments.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Boris Johnson warned Brexit Britain will not accept ANY compromise on migration controls
BORIS Johnson has been warned that the British people did not vote for "Brexit Lite" and that no compromise deal should be made with the EU that waters-down Britain’s ability to control its own borders.
The statement was made after Mr Johnson said he was confident Britain could strike up a deal with the European Union that allows access to the free market in return for some free movement of labour.
But UKIP employment spokeswoman Jane Collins MEP said that Britain "voted for independence from the EU and that means no free movement of people."
She added: "The Tories campaigning for leave didn't understand the effects on the working people that uncontrolled migration was having on wages, on jobs and on public services.
"And we can see that lack of understanding still in the aftermath of the vote as a Conservative government still fails to get why this policy which brought them cheap drivers and nannies is bad for people who aren't wealthy."
Mr Johnson, in New York for a United Nations Security Council meeting, told the BBC that he had "absolutely no doubt that a balance can be struck" between access to the single market and free movement of labour.
Fears over unrestricted immigration from the European Union were widely seen to have been responsible for the Brexit vote in last month's referendum. "
Oh Dear! so UKIP is off on another campaign of trouble causing is it?
And Boris is backing off from his previous stand? or is he?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Just watched the BBC2 programme....I must say I was pretty disappointed,but maybe I had too high expectations.
The guy who was a leave campaigner admitted that still we don't have a plan as to what Brexit consists of,he suggested that immigration wasn't a major point (he didn't want to appear racist),then later said that the plan had to have some control on migration....we know that cannot be achieved if we want to stay part of the single market.
There was a leaver in the audience who,I am surprised,said that he thought we should have another opportunity to vote,by way of a General Election,once the detail of Brexit has been established.
The success of the Leave campaign was taking back control,a broad and simple statement that the Remain had no response to. Threats by Osborne of putting up taxes actually drove people into the leave camp.
The overriding view seemed to be that most people didn't really know what they were voting for and probably still don't but they had one opportunity to register a general protest vote against the government and the EU and they weren't going to miss that opportunity.
My opinion is that we should develop a plan for Brexit,that people will now understand all the implications and put that in a new manifesto via a General Election,maybe ultimately that is Theresa Mays intention.
KudosDave

 

[gray198]

Just watched the BBC2 programme....I must say I was pretty disappointed,but maybe I had too high expectations.
The guy who was a leave campaigner admitted that still we don't have a plan as to what Brexit consists of,he suggested that immigration wasn't a major point (he didn't want to appear racist),then later said that the plan had to have some control on migration....we know that cannot be achieved if we want to stay part of the single market.
There was a leaver in the audience who,I am surprised,said that he thought we should have another opportunity to vote,by way of a General Election,once the detail of Brexit has been established.
The success of the Leave campaign was taking back control,a broad and simple statement that the Remain had no response to. Threats by Osborne of putting up taxes actually drove people into the leave camp.
The overriding view seemed to be that most people didn't really know what they were voting for and probably still don't but they had one opportunity to register a general protest vote against the government and the EU and they weren't going to miss that opportunity.
My opinion is that we should develop a plan for Brexit,that people will now understand all the implications and put that in a new manifesto via a General Election,maybe ultimately that is Theresa Mays intention.
KudosDave

Would we have known what we were voting for if we voted to stay. ??

 

[derf]

Until he tries to sell his house in France. Properties throughout South have become harder and harder to sell , combined with fact immobiliers charge 9%( we got it down to 5%, just sold two in Derbyshire at 1%)..some good news tho...if you do sell repatriating cash at moment is great. Just took us two years to sell ...brexit made us 19% with weak pound.
Mind if land is involved ( a big garden, allotment or field) you,ll have 3 months to wait for cash..whilst government decide if they want to buy the land ? ! ( seriously) Then there are notaire fees to pay..another 9%...oh and if you,ve made any cash after that they hit you with capital gains.. Yes France is great.. Well its sunny. Oh and if you had a survey when you bought, bin it now. Its not worth paper its written on..and another thing. Make sure your land is very well fenced off..our Marie decided half an acre of our land was owned by village...Pinched it back whilst we were in UK..hence the sale and about £15 k thrown away going to court. Yep he,ll love France.
Couldn't find any eu legislation throughout this French were willing to follow.
Loved time there tho, people friendly...windy sunny , food great. Its not uk tho..takes about 5 years. That's expectancy of ex pats in south France. I did 9.
And before somebody says why didn't you check deeds or landregistry on purchase. You cant. Notaire holds them, ones he had showed we,d bought land. The ones Marie held showed Village did...now guess who they believed..

If I were you derf I,d buy the suit of armour. You,ll have loads more fun and it will be cheaper.

Ps my story isn't isolated. Problems like this are common. One set of friends bought land already with planning permission. They planned on building 2 years before retirement. ( was to be in 5 years) All fine...6 months later they received notification their planning permis ran out in 2 months. Didn't have time to build, land dropped in value to tune of £40k. Another couple we know had a house built. On taking possession many faults were found. They took builder to court, he arranged bankruptcy. Firm went. He set up in a different name. House has now stood empty 4 years, cant be used pending investigation further court cases. It must be insured and tax fonciere must be paid..if not it becomes uninhabitable ( for good)under French law...(that's why you see so many uninhabited properties in France, well that and their odd probate laws) This couple are renting and paying for this one standing empty.
I,m not making any of this up, all 3 from our small village. Not making a point but all three cases mentioned are ex pat Brits.

Derf...I,m an out voter and the only delusional thinking I,ve ever done was buying a bloody house in France. Good luck with yours.

Glad to see you read my post about brexit harming the economy and being the negative thing that's happened (rather than the understandable upset of the rest of us,who have to live with the consequences of an almighty error of judgement by a bunch of cretins). I am French,I'm not sure this will help,but I think the English can become too preoccupied with ownership. I live on an old ex charter bav 36 I picked up 5 years ago for 40k, and I enjoy every minute of it. I can recommend it.

 

[D8ve]

Glad to see you read my post about brexit harming the economy and being the negative thing that's happened (rather than the understandable upset of the rest of us,who have to live with the consequences of an almighty error of judgement by a bunch of cretins). I am French,I'm not sure this will help,but I think the English can become too preoccupied with ownership. I live on an old ex charter bav 36 I picked up 5 years ago for 40k, and I enjoy every minute of it. I can recommend it.

Nice

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Glad to see you read my post about brexit harming the economy and being the negative thing that's happened (rather than the understandable upset of the rest of us,who have to live with the consequences of an almighty error of judgement by a bunch of cretins). I am French,I'm not sure this will help,but I think the English can become too preoccupied with ownership. I live on an old ex charter bav 36 I picked up 5 years ago for 40k, and I enjoy every minute of it. I can recommend it.

Bet not moored in Nice...

 

[derf]

Bet not moored in Nice...

Entirely hypothetically one can anchor in villefranche for free, and its beautiful,unless there's a southerly. But against all odds there are affordable places to moor in Riviera.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Would we have known what we were voting for if we voted to stay. ??

Probably not...I think the info was just as bad whether Leaver or Remain.
The Leave campaigner(sorry didn't get his name) on the Beeb suggested the following is the minimum..
1. Control of immigration
2. Ability to make our own laws and choose to ignore EU ones.
3. Continued access to the single market.
If I thought that package was possible I would have been tempted to vote Leave myself,but it's about as likely as Boris's NHS promises.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Entirely hypothetically one can anchor in villefranche for free, and its beautiful,unless there's a southerly. But against all odds there are affordable places to moor in Riviera.

You have to be very careful anchoring in Villefranche,over the years that bay has claimed many old sailing boats. I pulled an anchor up there and pulled up the complete rig of an old sail boat. But it's a lovely town.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Would we have known what we were voting for if we voted to stay. ??

Personally ? Emphatically yes!, generally since it was a known situation that people were living with, the answer would be the same, and logically the leave and remain voters would also know or at least in the same way they imagine they did.
They would all have been spared whatever we face now, wouldn't they?
No one has the slightest idea what will happen now, not even the Government.
What a deplorable mess.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Tory Rags "Sunday Express" for instance see Boris as somehow forgiven and a mew messiah.
"
BORIS JOHNSON is confident Britain will strike a deal with Europe that combines free trade with slashing immigration.
Mr Johnson insisted a deal could be done combining the benefits of free trade with a curtailing of migration.
He said: “I have absolutely no doubt that balance can be struck and over the next few weeks we’ll be discussing that in the Government and with our European friends and partners. Be in no doubt that this is something where everybody wishes to make fast progress in the economic interests both of Britain and the EU."

Boris is now elected leader of the "Breaming" Campaign, but he isn't winning any friends among the Brexit voters doing this is he?
They now have confirmation that he lied to them.
Interesting though that the papers are now starting to climb back to remaining in the EU don't you think?
But the reader's comments under this are not very often in favour are they?

 

[oldgroaner]

And this amounting to a confession of lying from a Brexit supporting journalist from the Sunday Mail

"Mark Littlewood
Writing as someone who backed Brexit, and who heads a free market think-tank beloved by Margaret Thatcher, I was always concerned the goal of cutting immigration and ending the free movement of productive workers from the EU while retaining unfettered access to the continent’s marketplace was a mirage.
Soon, the voters will also come to realise this."

So why did you and other lie to the public, what was your real reason for wanting out of the EU that you didn't reveal?
This turncoat was all for Brexit before the referendum, now suddenly he only wants to cherry pick parts that suit him?
The answer is of course that people like him want to be free of the EU legislation protecting the rights of workers so that they can oppress and exploit them, isn't it?
Funny how the right wing press is changing direction.
And leavers were not ill informed? what were they then?
Once again the readers comments are showing severe disappointment.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Entirely hypothetically one can anchor in villefranche for free, and its beautiful,unless there's a southerly. But against all odds there are affordable places to moor in Riviera.

I was thinking more about availability. One of reasons ee went St Cyprien/ Argeles was for getting a berth.( wouldn't moor anywhere in this region) but still 4 year wait at Argeles, after being told one was available,berthed at St Cyp)
A berth is essential here tho...tramontane..but that's for the windsurfing. Boat stays put. Loads cheaper than Riviera tho. Coast not as pretty but just a bit inland is stunning.( Alberes / Pyrenees)


Kudos. Good eu post.

 

[trex]

Would we have known what we were voting for if we voted to stay. ??

yes, more of the same. Everyone understood that, millions and millions voted for change. Their reasons to do so may be unconnected to the EU though.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

yes, more of the same. Everyone understood that, millions and millions voted for change. Their reasons to do so may be unconnected to the EU though.

You think stayers wanted eu to gain more control ? I don't think so. Trouble is process of eu gaining more is insideous, comes in small but irrevocable steps. You really think voters know what eu level of control over its members will ( would have been?) be in 20 or 30 years time.
More of same is very simplistic. Had we had more of same from lets say 1980, this whole mess would never had arisen. The eu by its sheer nature has developed and will continue to do so, nobody can predict its ultimate carnation. Stayers can not know what they are voting for either.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Guardian
"
Plans to allow the United Kingdom an exemption from EU rules on freedom of movement for up to seven years while retaining access to the single market are being considered in European capitals as part of a potential deal on Brexit.

Senior British and EU sources have confirmed that despite strong initial resistance from French president François Hollande in talks with prime minister Theresa May last week, the idea of an emergency brake on the free movement of people that would go far further than the one David Cameron negotiated before the Brexit referendum is being examined.

If such an agreement were struck, and a strict time limit imposed, diplomats believe it could go a long way towards addressing concerns of the British people over immigration from EU states, while allowing the UK full trade access to the European market.

While the plan will prove highly controversial in many member states, including France, Poland and other central and eastern European nations, the attraction is that it would limit the economic shock to the EU economy from Brexit by keeping the UK in the single market, and lessen the political damage to the European project that would result from complete divorce."

And how long before the realisation sets in that we no longer have any influence over the way the EU operates, we are just "hangers on? and still have to comply with laws we have no say over any more?"
No thank you either all the way out, or all the way in.
Anything else will serve neither the leavers nor the remainers, and leave the Government exposed as the swindlers they are.

 

[trex]

You think stayers wanted eu to gain more control ? I don't think so. Trouble is process of eu gaining more is insideous, comes in small but irrevocable steps. You really think voters know what eu level of control over its members will ( would have been?) be in 20 or 30 years time.
More of same is very simplistic.

Brexiters are anal about controls.
remainers want to share controls. Same reason why people over the ages formed partnerships and joint enterprises.