Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Is a Liberal Democrat has been a key voice?

I assume that was an attempt at irony.

Even 'has been' is pushing it a bit.

Politically, Campbell is a 'never was and never will be'.

Not so in parliament, Menzies Campbell was a cross-bench highly respected figure thoughout most of his career, only spoiling that a little in the late stages. His "elder statesman" views are still respected by many in the House, his selection for an interview reflecting that.
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[RobF]

Interesting how the words of our new Prime Minister are dismissed as meaningless political rhetoric, but Campbell's words are the gold-plated pronouncements of an elder statesman.

The guy's entitled to his opinion, of course, but it's worth not a great deal more than yours or mine.

It certainly matters as much, which is very little.

 

[BrendanJ]

Yep and that average euro of 20% is were the fault line exists coincidentally?Above that and you are in the potential leavers camp, not benefitting from the euro one size fits all policy. It's really simple actually
If you live in Greece try telling one of your two children they will never work except casual menial work, with or without a university degree
Why don't the Bruxelles elite get it!

 

[BrendanJ]

you are, frankly, even more cognitively challenged than i imagined

Ha, insults without any logic or reasoning, I would not expect more from you
Just repeat after me " Brexit is Brexit" you can overcome your learning difficulties if you try

 

[tillson]

Flud,in the south east it was all about immigration,the interview with the old guys playing Golf in Essex that the BBC made,every one of those guys mentioned immigration...overcrowded schools,too many languages,long queues at doctors,difficulty with getting social housing,low farm wages....they blamed it all on EE migrants.

Good, I see we are now getting to the source of this myth that most people who voted out did so because of immigration.

We can now add some old men playing golf in Essex to the @trex poll of less than 0.07% of those who voted out. A poll incidentally carried out by an organisation renowned for inaccuracy and failure.

Does anyone know how Kieth Chegwin voted? Perhaps we can use that data to extrapolate some more spurious conclusions.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Ha, insults without any logic or reasoning, I would not expect more from you
Just repeat after me " Brexit is Brexit" you can overcome your learning difficulties if you try

Brendan, before I reply to a couple of your posts about the impact of brexit, can I just ask what your experience is, as I don't want to come across as patronising. So what do you / have you done that is relevant to this discussion?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Good, I see we are now getting to the source of this myth that most people who voted out did so because of immigration.

We can now add some old men playing golf in Essex to @trex poll of less than 0.07% of those who voted out. A poll incidentally carried out by an organisation renowned for inaccuracy and failure.

Does anyone know how Kieth Chegwin voted? Perhaps we can use that data to extrapolate some more spurious conclusions.

Ok, so put it the other way round (because I have to agree, everyone of the hundreds of people I've spoken to about this who voted leave did so - because we're full etc etc) if you think most people weren't interested in migration, what are you basing your opinion on?

 

[BrendanJ]

freedom of movement is an insurance against market fluctuations. You may for example need a lot of bricklayers in London and not in Boston. If you have to have a point system, then it follows that the workers will need an offer of a job before allowed in, and maybe at the wrong location. That introduces unnecessary viscosity to the market.

Freedom of movement is simply the lazy way of running an economy, Germany benefit usually from there strong economy but get short of labour, so just move the paid help from Greece as there economy is tanking, then of course the Germans can move in and buy there villas, and the Greeks can all live in ghettos in Hamburg
In a homogenous society like the uk an get the idea of workers getting on there bikes as the late thatcher once said. At least when they move they speak the same language, same culture, but in Europe it's not a reasonable solution and is biased to the richer countries, just forget about the rest
That's good enough reason for leaving in my book, economic elites an bankers that care bugger all for the citizens they increasingly rule
It has to stop

 

[derf]

Freedom of movement is simply the lazy way of running an economy, Germany benefit usually from there strong economy but get short of labour, so just move the paid help from Greece as there economy is tanking, then of course the Germans can move in and buy there villas, and the Greeks can all live in ghettos in Hamburg
In a homogenous society like the uk an get the idea of workers getting on there bikes as the late thatcher once said. At least when they move they speak the same language, same culture, but in Europe it's not a reasonable solution and is biased to the richer countries, just forget about the rest
That's good enough reason for leaving in my book, economic elites an bakers that care bugger all for the citizens they increasingly rule
It has to stop

well in my area bakers are very caring (and make good croissants, which is a bonus). Clearly you know nothing about the UK's demography/ageing population. Nor has it occurred to you that germany shouldered most of the burden of greece's massive bailout. Sure it was to pay euro banks based in germany, but for loans the greeks took out under false pretentions, with cooked books. And greece went on to pile on the debt before and after this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33218251

 

[derf]

Without getting into details I am on the board of directors of a multi national turning over 1 billion euro in europe, is that good enough for you,
But don't let it stop you being patronising if it makes you feel good

er "yes", but have you remembered to take your olanzapine this morning?

 

[BrendanJ]

well in my area bakers are very caring (and make good croissants, which is a bonus). Clearly you know nothing about the UK's demography/ageing population. Nor has it occurred to you that germany shouldered most of the burden of greece's massive bailout. Sure it was to pay euro banks based in germany, but for loans the greeks took out under false pretentions, with cooked books. And greece went on to pile on the debt before and after this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33218251

Derf
For once I am amused at your quickness in picking up my text error, well done
Germany have to park there wealth somewere, they decided to park it in Greece, a clear high risk loan that had nothing to do with goodness,
They now own Greece and unlike they expect of all other countries to write off there bad dedpts they would not dream of doing that themselves. That would be too much like the EU dream wouldn't it
Another reason why the EU will fail, too many vested interests
By the way I heard now in Greece all the deckchairs are free to Germans as a precursor to them owning all the islands

 

[BrendanJ]

er "yes", but have you remembered to take your olanzapine this morning?

Give up Derf, you don't have the intellect for this thread

 

[derf]

Give up Derf, you don't have the intellect for this thread

now that IS funny! yup, i'm sure this thread is a challenging intelectual workout for you.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Flud,in the south east it was all about immigration,the interview with the old guys playing Golf in Essex that the BBC made,every one of those guys mentioned immigration...overcrowded schools,too many languages,long queues at doctors,difficulty with getting social housing,low farm wages....they blamed it all on EE migrants.
I dont see it that way,these immigrants are doing the jobs that most Brits dont want to do,at wages that may conflict with their benefits-better to laze at home and baby farm!. The schools/doctors/council housing problems are all down to lack of investment by all governments.....taking away the income producers and tax paying EE migrants is surely going to make matters worse,farm wages have always been low.
KudosDave

There,s a few issues and presumptions in there KTM. Ofcourse some people voted out for immigration reasons and if they did that's their business. We should neither knock that decision or tell them its wrong. Its their opinion. End of.
And if some folk have followed this reasoning assuming the leave campaign/ decision is based purely on it is sn assumption noboddy can make. Its been a reason for marginalising out voters. I don't think it should even be discussed. Why folk voted the way they did is their business.
You are also making assumption under brexit we will suddenly be void of immigrants. Plainly wrong. We,ve had immigrants since UK was founded and we,ll have them till it finishes. Perhaps we should choose who, where and how many, not some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels, which is a completely different point to being intrinsically against immigration. I,m not but I,m opposed to some fool like Junkhers dictating how many when his own country (Luxembourg) received 500 last year. Yes, it might be finacial implications why they "took" so few but that is engineered that way. EU does not have " free movement" of people at all. Its just for the chosen few. The poor can pick from devestated regions all over eu ?? ( especially if they have a few plastic chairs)
Could you afford to live in Luxembourg ? Nope me neither. And country is so rich because it extorts money from rest of EU. ( its a tax haven for mega companies, paying least tax in EU) Hows that fair ???
Leave them to it. Allow in those we want by our own rules. Not those of EU.
Financially its pure speculation we can't cope. We can and will , even if its without free eu market...
Ps pound has almost recovered to pre panic levels. Calm down..deficit fairly unaltered Derf.

 

[BrendanJ]

now that IS funny! yup, i'm sure this thread is a challenging intelectual workout for you.

Actually that is true, it is about the only reason for participating, because there are some on this thread that actually have valid points to make and it serves to test my own views. That is when faced with someone that has a view that they can justify in a reasoned manner, and are open minded enough to want to hear and understand other opionions.
What this thread is not, is a rerun of the referendum, or some means of changing the result.

 

[BrendanJ]

There,s a few issues and presumptions in there KTM. Ofcourse some people voted out for immigration reasons and if they did that's their business. We should neither knock that decision or tell them its wrong. Its their opinion. End of.
And if some folk have followed this reasoning assuming the leave campaign/ decision is based purely on it is sn assumption noboddy can make. Its been a reason for marginalising out voters. I don't think it should even be discussed. Why folk voted the way they did is their business.
You are also making assumption under brexit we will suddenly be void of immigrants. Plainly wrong. We,ve had immigrants since UK was founded and we,ll have them till it finishes. Perhaps we should choose who, where and how many, not some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels, which is a completely different point to being intrinsically against immigration. I,m not but I,m opposed to some fool like Junkhers dictating how many when his own country (Luxembourg) received 500 last year. Yes, it might be finacial implications why they "took" so few but that is engineered that way. EU does not have " free movement" of people at all. Its just for the chosen few. The poor can pick from devestated regions all over eu ??
Could you afford to live in Luxembourg ? Nope me neither. And country is so rich because it extorts money from rest of EU. ( its a tax haven for mega companies, paying least tax in EU) Hows that fair ???
Leave them to it. Allow in those we want by our own rules. Not those of EU.
Financially its pure speculation we can't cope. We can and will , even if its without free eu market...
Ps pound has almost recovered to pre panic levels. Calm down..deficit fairly unaltered backward freD.

I agree completely and well spoken, with balance, reasoning and fairness,
Perhaps you could be a good example for the thread

 

[flecc]

Interesting how the words of our new Prime Minister are dismissed as meaningless political rhetoric, but Campbell's words are the gold-plated pronouncements of an elder statesman.

Now who's exaggerating. I didn't do anything of the sort, I merely let Dave know he had an ally in Menzies Campbell, commenting then and later on the fact that he's had influence in the House. In fact I've rarely shared in his opinions and never had faith in the Lib-Dems.
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[tillson]

Ok, so put it the other way round (because I have to agree, everyone of the hundreds of people I've spoken to about this who voted leave did so - because we're full etc etc) if you think most people weren't interested in migration, what are you basing your opinion on?

I think people are concerned about losing control of UK law and our ability to govern ourselves. I don't think people want to be part of a USA type of arrangement which is creeping up on them without any say.

Importantly, I think people perceive the EU as a failing enterprise with massive problems looming, most of which are being swept under the carpet. There are many failing economies within the EU and people fear that the UK will be forced into bankrolling them to keep the EU dream alive. We coughed up in the region of £1 billion to prop up Greece and we have "Greece 2" in the making along with Itally and Portugal and Spain and.... This is a concern.

This is based on talking to the people that I work with and talk to. Maybe we keep different company if all of yours were migration based.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Derf
For once I am amused at your quickness in picking up my text error, well done
Germany have to park there wealth somewere, they decided to park it in Greece, a clear high risk loan that had nothing to do with goodness,
They now own Greece and unlike they expect of all other countries to write off there bad dedpts they would not dream of doing that themselves. That would be too much like the EU dream wouldn't it
Another reason why the EU will fail, too many vested interests
By the way I heard now in Greece all the deckchairs are free to Germans as a precursor to them owning all the islands

Dont think the Greeks are all poor,those that shifted their Euros into Swiss Francs and then saw the value jump in 2 hours by 30%,that was the morning that the Swiss uncoupled their currency from the Euro.
Greeks who have money,have lots of money,but Merkel is never going to see any of it. I parked my boat next to a Greek registered Admiral built boat named Aqua,all 10 million Euros of it.
Its not the Germans who are buying up the islands its the Russians,they own big chunks of the Ionian Islands now and the marinas are being bought by the Turks.
i rarely meet a German in the Ionian Islands,its mostly Brits,Dutch and Swedes.
The Germans used to buy Majorca and Ibiza,not been there for a while so not sure thats still the case.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

In a homogenous society like the uk an get the idea of workers getting on there bikes as the late thatcher once said.

Since you are so quick to criticise others, may I point out that it was Norman Tebbitt who said that, not Margaret Thatcher?
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