Brexit, for once some facts.

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Heres news for you we have plenty of beggars in the UK too, and who is to blame for that?
You seem to have forgotten that the EU doesn't govern individual countries and what happens inside them, (contrary to Brexit propaganda) local conditions are the result of the actions of their own governments ,
Rather negates your comments doesn't it? you are blaming the EU for local Government failures as if they control them.
Typical Brexit propaganda.

No I,m not at all OG.
Spain has beggars outside every supermarket. On the national road between Perpignan and Barcelona on any given day there will be about ( its a guess) 150 girls sat on white chairs selling themselves.
A common occurrence on the motorway connecting the same cities is for a lad on a motorbike to stab your tyre ( if stood) or throw a brick under your car if moving. You stop to investigate and a car stops behind to "help",then another car blocks you going forward. You are then robbed. This is in a eu , supposedly civilised country around 1000 miles away. Its happened to me once, and a mate twice,( and he,s an ex marine) Its very common.
Do you really think these things would be happening if eu was remotely succesfull.??
I think not.
Have we seen these things in UK ?? I have not, but we will if things continue as now. Fact ???

 

[oldgroaner]

No I,m not at all OG.
Spain has beggars outside every supermarket. On the national road between Perpignan and Barcelona on any given day there will be about ( its a guess) 150 girls sat on white chairs selling themselves.
A common occurrence on the motorway connecting the same cities is for a lad on a motorbike to stab your tyre ( if stood) or throw a brick under your car if moving. You stop to investigate and a car stops behind to "help",then another car blocks you going forward. You are then robbed. This is in a eu , supposedly civilised country around 1000 miles away. Its happened to me once, and a mate twice,( and he,s an ex marine) Its very common.
Do you really think these things would be happening if eu was remotely succesfull.??
I think not.
Have we seen these things in UK ?? I have not, but we will if things continue as now. Fact ???

And just how and by what mechanism is the EU to impose order, by policing member states? It is a union not a state in itself, with no power to rule individual states, which you would be the first to complain of "we want our country back!"
What happens inside states has never been within its control not is that desirable.
Bad governments are the problem

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

I have to drive to the airport to pick up family members now, so I'll have to duck out now, but before I go I'd like to thank everyone for a stimulating debate, and wish you the best of luck with the referendum whichever side you support

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

And just how and by what mechanism is the EU to impose order, by policing member states? It is a union not a state in itself, with no power to rule individual states, which you would be the first to complain of "we want our country back!"
What happens inside states has never been within its control not is that desirable.
Bad governments are the problem

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

That's in France and Spain. Portugal is bankrupt as is Greece.
Whilst eu sorts this mess out what benefits are we seeing? And why do you want to be governed by this so called ( your words) more democratic institution when it cant sort any of these issues out. (There was rioting in Athens because eu assumed control ( indirectly, imposing austerity) but cant help.
How on earth can being part of a failing system be of the slightest help to uk?? Unless you are being humanitarian and want to bale the whole lot out ??
And what I didn't mention was eu money used to give all those girls nice new roads to put plastic chairs beside, so I suppose it helped a bit ...( seriously, Northern Spain has an absolutely amazing , smooth new road network, that's hardly used...all EU money, probably from UK..but the money lined pockets of councillors, road builders and notaires...to spend money with the girls..( again true)
Just visit place OG, or Athens, ir Kos, or Sangette...list goes on and on..all with their own problems, that eu cant solve. So why stay in ???

 

[BrendanJ]

Brendan, you are having fun aren't you?
If you are right I had better to be ready to take the call and decide the fate of the nation!
Should I use your logic and toss a coin to help me decide?

Yes I think you should , because all of the "facts" you've quoted so far is a bag of bullshit

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

And just how and by what mechanism is the EU to impose order, by policing member states? It is a union not a state in itself, with no power to rule individual states, which you would be the first to complain of "we want our country back!"
What happens inside states has never been within its control not is that desirable.
Bad governments are the problem

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

By fostering wealth with all this free trade you talk about, but it obviously doesn't work...does it...

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes I think you should , because all of the "facts" you've quoted so far is a bag of bullshit

How would you know? facts aren't something you understand are they?
Anyway, it's all over bar the voting, so have a great day

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

How would you know? facts aren't something you understand are they?
Anyway, it's all over bar the voting, so have a great day

But OG its you spouting facts which blatantly are anything but...

 

[oldgroaner]

But OG its you spouting facts which blatantly are anything but...

That is simply your opinion
Facts con't change into something else because they don't suit you, but isn't it time you gave it a rest and went out to vote?

 

[derf]

That is simply your opinion
Facts con't change into something else because they don't suit you, but isn't it time you gave it a rest and went out to vote?

well, I've voted. one startling realisation I had after I did it is that it all felt hypothetical and up for discussion where as now - without wanting to be melodramatic, or buy into any of the scaremongering both sides have engaged in - it feels genuinely worrying. If it goes wrong the union dissolves, the pound sheds a third of its value and the economy and house prices take a plunge even a relative non materialist like me will experience a tangible degree of discomfort. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen. good luck all.

 

[trex]

I watched the last debate on Channel 4 late last night. Sheila Hancock made a moving speech at closing, the best call for remain.

I voted to remain this morning.

 

[oldgroaner]

well, I've voted. one startling realisation I had after I did it is that it all felt hypothetical and up for discussion where as now - without wanting to be melodramatic, or buy into any of the scaremongering both sides have engaged in - it feels genuinely worrying. If it goes wrong the union dissolves, the pound sheds a third of its value and the economy and house prices take a plunge even a relative non materialist like me will experience a tangible degree of discomfort. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen. good luck all.

Whatever happens we will all muddle through as we always do and as Churchill said
"let us go forward together" by which I mean the people of the UK, whichever way the vote goes, we can't afford to be split down the middle by this, can we?

 

[tillson]

well, I've voted. one startling realisation I had after I did it is that it all felt hypothetical and up for discussion where as now - without wanting to be melodramatic, or buy into any of the scaremongering both sides have engaged in - it feels genuinely worrying. If it goes wrong the union dissolves, the pound sheds a third of its value and the economy and house prices take a plunge even a relative non materialist like me will experience a tangible degree of discomfort. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen. good luck all.

You and I have had our disagreements over the referendum and your concerns are very valid. I genuinely don't have any inclination which way the vote will go, but whatever the outcome, I hope that it doesn't adversely affect you.

I hope that we can engage on the forum on more friendly terms in the future.

Best wishes.

 

[tillson]

Whatever happens we will all muddle through as we always do and as Churchill said
"let us go forward together" by which I mean the people of the UK, whichever way the vote goes, we can't afford to be split down the middle by this, can we?

This may be the only thing that you have ever said that I agree with!

Good luck and all the best.

 

[oldgroaner]

And to you my friend!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[derf]

You and I have had our disagreements over the referendum and your concerns are very valid. I genuinely don't have any inclination which way the vote will go, but whatever the outcome, I hope that it doesn't adversely affect you.

I hope that we can engage on the forum on more friendly terms in the future.

Best wishes.

many thanks, I hope the vote doesn't adversely affect you either. Whichever way it goes, clichéd as it may sound, the debate has certainly done much to engage everyone (including ourselves) much more in the political process.

 

[flecc]

Yes, it's certainly been an interesting debate. I must admit I didn't know what I was starting some 52 pages ago when I initiated this thread. . It's made the Helmet threads look like friendly chit-chat!

As I've said before, I'm not personally concerned how the vote goes, since there's advantages and disadvantages either way.

But I suppose if it's Remain on Friday it will be the more boring outcome since it'll just be "same old", while if Leave there will be the excitement of the unknown.

Whatever the outcome, I hope you'll all benefit from it.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

We will either have a 10% stake in the EU or a 100% stake in the UK.

 

[oldgroaner]

We will either have a 10% stake in the EU or a 100% stake in the UK.

Not biting, as this debate is over, do move on as its decision time today.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Second all recent sentiments. It has been a good thread.
I walked to polling station, about 2 miles. Gardens all manicured, window cleaners talking on ladders, pretending to clean windows. Cars stopping at zebra crossings and drivers letting others out at T junctions. All seemed so organised and British. Long may it continue, whatever the vote.
I wont be going back to Spain ,France or Greece anytime soon.