Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Trex, in principle you are correct, but for those that might get the wrong impression I should state having regularly spoken and visited my work colleagues infrance they have one of the most liberal regime for workers I have ever seen, never in Britain from the hours of work, holidays, Impossibility of letting staff go in even bad business circumstances, profit shares that make your eyes water with envy, the absolute dominance of the unions
And finally a socialist government , no less has woken up to the significant negative effects to the economy this all brings and is trying to redress this, for the benefits of the economy
But again I agree with you " fat chance in France"
So it takes to the streets in typical French style, which for sure the right wing will exploit, but it has its roots in left wing policies weak government and frankly too strong unions
And indeed if they are not careful could indeed lead to a truly right wing government coming to power
Try adding IMHO
 

oldgroaner

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Agreed, but I see that as highly desirable and what we should have. No system is all good and the dominance of the unions is the downside, but I think that worth suffering for the overwhelming benefits for ordinary employees.

Despite the very long period of criticism of France on this subject, they don't actually go bankrupt, do they? And that's despite building themselves an excellent infrastructure that makes the UK infrastructure look almost third world.

If there's mismanagement, it's that of the UK governments who have given us the worst of all worlds.
.
And when confronted with this fact on judgement day a representative of the Government has sealed orders to ask for an unspecified number of other offences against people of this country and the rest of the world come to that over the past Thousand years to be taken into consideration.
If it so please the court , and thank you for the Green and pleasant land, Oh er sorry about that too, we only scorched it a bit round the edges.:rolleyes:
 
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oldgroaner

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Trex, in principle you are correct, but for those that might get the wrong impression I should state having regularly spoken and visited my work colleagues infrance they have one of the most liberal regime for workers I have ever seen, never in Britain from the hours of work, holidays, Impossibility of letting staff go in even bad business circumstances, profit shares that make your eyes water with envy, the absolute dominance of the unions
And finally a socialist government , no less has woken up to the significant negative effects to the economy this all brings and is trying to redress this, for the benefits of the economy
But again I agree with you " fat chance in France"
So it takes to the streets in typical French style, which for sure the right wing will exploit, but it has its roots in left wing policies weak government and frankly too strong unions
And indeed if they are not careful could indeed lead to a truly right wing government coming to power
Good Grief are the Conservative party moving over there?
 
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oldtom

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It seems to me that an awful lot of people are in denial about the influence of extremists and it's just coincidence that the main 'Brexit' proponents are the parties of the far right.

I have a real difficulty trying to get my head round the fact that so many citizens seem prepared to listen to the drivel of people like Farage over this EU referendum yet he and his party have very little support from the electorate - add up all the fascist groups' MPs and see how much influence they have in parliament.

Have you ever wondered who bankrolls these people?

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/22/top-vote-leave-donor-revealed-to-be-former-bnp-member/

Tom
 

oldgroaner

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Some more from the Daily Mail
"
KATIE HOPKINS: If Remain win I warn you not to fall ill, not to want to buy a home, not to expect a primary school place for your child, not to complain about the next terror attack. So be brave and vote 'Leave' to get Great Britain back"

Well that seems mild enough, no one could accuse her of scaremongering, could they? and all supported by absolutely Rock solid facts!
Just one thing puzzles me, back from where? I was under the impression I was standing on it (must be my imagination)
And an additional non controversial by line here
"
Who'd want to be shackled to an ecomomic catastrophe like this? Thought the Eurozone nightmare was over? You're terrifyingly wrong, says City Editor ALEX BRUMMER. The worst could be yet to come...



    • Eurozone could be on the brink of collapse, irrespective of Brexit vote
    • Deficits in many countries rising as debt piles up for fragile economies
    • Economies has stagnated in many countries such as Greece and Italy
    • Let do widespread dismay and violence on streets of many Euro cities
By ALEX BRUMMER CITY EDITOR FOR THE DAILY MAIL

Nice to see these people are on the Brexit side
Won't the last edition of the day be absolutely Fabulous ?
 
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oldgroaner

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OG
Time for afternoon sleep, you've obviously run out of facts, words and humour
Go on then Brendan have a little rest so you can come out with some more creative thoughts for our edification.
Once again the sentence doesn't quite work, would you like some help?;)
 

gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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Even this morning, within 24 hours of the ballot, I listened to someone giving forth about immigration being the cause of our NHS being under pressure. She also ranted about rail and tube strikes, the closure of steel plants and various other situations being the fault of the EU.

This tory government of ours has a lot to answer for and they do nothing to quell the notion among many that the EU is the problem because it suits their right-wing agenda to allow such BS to be spread around.

Here's a link to a page which describes how I feel about what has been going on, continues to go on and will become horrendously worse if the electorate choose to vote for the extremists associated with Farage and his cronies tomorrow.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-brexit-snake-oil-revolution.html

Tom
Are you saying that the 300,00 plus People who arrived this last year are not real and will therefore not use the NHS or the doctors etc. Of course they won't . It's all the fault of the tories
 

gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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Some more from the Daily Mail
"
KATIE HOPKINS: If Remain win I warn you not to fall ill, not to want to buy a home, not to expect a primary school place for your child, not to complain about the next terror attack. So be brave and vote 'Leave' to get Great Britain back"

Well that seems mild enough, no one could accuse her of scaremongering, could they? and all supported by absolutely Rock solid facts!
Just one thing puzzles me, back from where? I was under the impression I was standing on it (must be my imagination)
And an additional non controversial by line here
"
Who'd want to be shackled to an ecomomic catastrophe like this? Thought the Eurozone nightmare was over? You're terrifyingly wrong, says City Editor ALEX BRUMMER. The worst could be yet to come...



    • Eurozone could be on the brink of collapse, irrespective of Brexit vote
    • Deficits in many countries rising as debt piles up for fragile economies
    • Economies has stagnated in many countries such as Greece and Italy
    • Let do widespread dismay and violence on streets of many Euro cities
By ALEX BRUMMER CITY EDITOR FOR THE DAILY MAIL

Nice to see these people are on the Brexit side
Won't the last edition of the day be absolutely Fabulous ?
The remain side have used nothing but scare tactics. Even threatening pensioners who have contributed all their lives.
 

trex

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May 15, 2011
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Are you saying that the 300,00 plus People who arrived this last year are not real and will therefore not use the NHS or the doctors etc. Of course they won't . It's all the fault of the tories
they are real - but 350,000 in 65 millions is 0.53%.
It's not like squeezing 100,000 into 90,000 place Wembley stadium.

Non EU immigration has always been higher than EU. We have had huge numbers of immigrants before.


 
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gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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A murder by a right-wing supporter of fascism last week; now a serious assault on an elderly man......what does it take to get people to understand the danger of affording right-wing extremism any credence in the political future of this country?

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/22/euref-elderly-man-punched-in-the-face-for-handing-out-remain-leaflets/

Tom
There are just as many left wing thugs about. The vast majority of people in this country are decent honest and fair. They are not racists or fascists as you seem to be implying about anyone who has a different viewpoint
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Are you saying that the 300,00 plus People who arrived this last year are not real and will therefore not use the NHS or the doctors etc. Of course they won't . It's all the fault of the tories
The fault of the tories is failing to adjust the size and resources of the NHS to match the population.

When the NHS was formed, we had a population of 48 millions. It's risen since to one third bigger at over 64 millions. Over the years the NHS sometimes expanded to suit, but it needs to keep pace so needs the money to do that.

After all, the majority of the immigrants are working and paying taxes and national insurance, so the money's there.
.
 
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EddiePJ

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I heard one of the most convincing arguments for leaving the EU yesterday, given by an English football supporter that was being interviewed about the subject.

The reason for leaving. "The Euros don't understand our drinking laws, I want to drink outside a pub a not be dictated to."

So there you have it, that has convinced me that if there was ever a reason to leave the EU, then that is it.

I had already decided that I wanted to vote to stay in, but ultimately I wanted my vote to be left to my 17 year old daughter to decide, and told her that I would vote in which ever direction that she wanted.
I didn't ask her to, but she laid out many sound and responsible reasons for staying in, and said that if she could vote, then her choice would be to stay in.

We haven't previously discussed the subject as a family, but I was glad that her decision was added to by reason as well. In it is.
 
Are you saying that the 300,00 plus People who arrived this last year are not real and will therefore not use the NHS or the doctors etc. Of course they won't . It's all the fault of the tories
the extra people aren't at fault though are they, they are contributing to society and paying tax. The fact that the government isn't increasing services in line with demand is what's at fault.

If you have a problem with 300,000 extra people, personally I'd be attempting to stop people who can't afford to look after and provide for their own children bringing more and more people into the country though their reproduction ;)

and that is meant in jest, but I'm sure you get my overall point.
 

KirstinS

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Apr 5, 2011
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So, what level of voter turnout do you

A) expect
B) be satisfied with (,ie the result whichever way is representative....well, enough)


General elections are around 40,% mark and the Scottish one, from memory, got 84% !
 

BrendanJ

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So, what level of voter turnout do you

A) expect
B) be satisfied with (,ie the result whichever way is representative....well, enough)


General elections are around 40,% mark and the Scottish one, from memory, got 84% !
forecast for rain tomorrow so really couldn't say, but given the level of debate that has exceeded anything I have ever known , then I would have to accept the result as representative whether I like it or not, and shame on those that don't vote
 

tillson

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May 29, 2008
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I have a real difficulty trying to get my head round the fact that so many citizens seem prepared to listen to the drivel of people like Farage over this EU referendum yet he and his party have very little support from the electorate - add up all the fascist groups' MPs and see how much influence they have in parliament.

Have you ever wondered who bankrolls these people?

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/22/top-vote-leave-donor-revealed-to-be-former-bnp-member/

Tom
Farage and his party enjoys more support from the electorate than the Lib Dems and SNP put together. UKIP is the third most popular party in UK politics.
 
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Farage and his party enjoys more support from the electorate than the Lib Dems and SNP put together. UKIP is the third most popular party in UK politics.
and this is something we as a country should be deeply ashamed of!

I'm sure the Nazi party was popular in Germany at one point. Being popular doesn't mean you are either right, or acceptable.
 
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