Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

Everyone should be listening to the comments of the people this will effect, especially when we tell you that this will have a negative impact on the UK economically.

Why should we only listen to people who point out the negative impact of an exit from the UK on our economy?

There are plenty of people in business, some bigger, some smaller than yours, who tell us that leaving the EU will benefit the economy. I listen to both sides of the argument and make my decision. We do not need you to dictate to us which side of the argument we should listen to.

 

[BrendanJ]

Are you really so naive to believe that?
Surely not!

Facts please, and try to make them pertinent to my statement, and not wander off

 

[oldtom]

Those of you who take the trouble to cast your eye over my posts will be well aware of my my feelings about the rise of fascism, led primarily by Farage and his United Kingdom Independence Party but supported by a number of other extremist groups and the entire right wing of the tory party.

I can't be the only member with connections in France so others may well know that there has been a lot of civil unrest, particularly in Paris, recently. The major news agencies seem to be avoiding any reporting of what has been happening and those that have, produce only a diluted account of events.

I sincerely hope that no-one is foolish enough to dismiss any connection between what is happening there and what is going on here. Extreme right-wing policies by a government which doesn't listen and then blames someone else for their problems has always been symptomatic of fascism. Mr Hollande, in this case, has decided it's all the fault of the trade unionists.

This article gives some insight:

http://yournewswire.com/one-million-people-rise-up-in-france-amid-media-blackout/

Tom

 

[oldtom]

If people want to read about what is going on in the world or even just in Britain, the British press and media will not enlighten them.

It's interesting to compare the differences between what we receive in the UK and what those in other countries are told about the same stories. There is plenty of stuff available on foreign TV channels and on the internet for those who are actually interested.

As my great fear currently is the rise of right-wing extremism which many continue to pooh-pooh, I was pleased to see from the attached article that I'm not alone in that fear.

Judging by some of the recent comments from the xenophobic contributors to this thread, it looks like some treated themselves to an extra bowl of stupid this morning so I expect this little article will be dismissed without any forensic consideration, just as has been the case all along.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/21/these-words-by-childrens-author-michael-rosen-were-never-more-timely/

Tom

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Why should we only listen to people who point out the negative impact of an exit from the UK on our economy?

There are plenty of people in business, some bigger, some smaller than yours, who tell us that leaving the EU will benefit the economy. I listen to both sides of the argument and make my decision. We do not need you to dictate to us which side of the argument we should listen to.

I'm not dictating anything... .but surely you can see the lack of logic that is being displayed when I offer an expert in sight from within the cycle industry about the negative impacts on the UK that brexit could have, and I share concerns from European export managers and I get told I should keep this insight to myself because I have a "vested interest".

is there anyone you'd take advice from, on this matter?

Everyone has a vested interested... we all live on the same planet. No one is an island.... it would only take the sea level to change, or the building of a couple of big damns and we'd be land locked to Europe again.

 

[trex]

Why should we only listen to people who point out the negative impact of an exit from the UK on our economy?

There are plenty of people in business, some bigger, some smaller than yours, who tell us that leaving the EU will benefit the economy. I listen to both sides of the argument and make my decision. We do not need you to dictate to us which side of the argument we should listen to.

the problem is Brexit serves the economic interest of fewer people than the EU. If you look at the businesses that back Brexit, it's easy to see why. In the case of JCB and Dyson, they'll benefit from a weaker Pound and less red tape plus I suspect an amount of personal political conviction from their billionaire owners too. For the rest of us, a strong Pound means lower price in the shop. In the case of Tate & Lyle, it's the 30% duty on sugars that they import from the Caribbeans, they'd like zero import duty. If you are a farmer growing sugar beet, you need that tariff to protect you from competition from the Caribbeans.
There will be winners and losers in any system. People should vote for their vested interest.

 

[BrendanJ]

Those of you who take the trouble to cast your eye over my posts will be well aware of my my feelings about the rise of fascism, led primarily by Farage and his United Kingdom Independence Party but supported by a number of other extremist groups and the entire right wing of the tory party.

I can't be the only member with connections in France so others may well know that there has been a lot of civil unrest, particularly in Paris, recently. The major news agencies seem to be avoiding any reporting of what has been happening and those that have, produce only a diluted account of events.

I sincerely hope that no-one is foolish enough to dismiss any connection between what is happening there and what is going on here. Extreme right-wing policies by a government which doesn't listen and then blames someone else for their problems has always been symptomatic of fascism. Mr Hollande, in this case, has decided it's all the fault of the trade unionists.

This article gives some insight:

http://yournewswire.com/one-million-people-rise-up-in-france-amid-media-blackout/

Tom

Um!!
Extreme right wing policies of a left wing government?
Just goes to prove you are all cast in the same mold and as bad as each other, and it is the trade unions that are striking and burning tyres in the road. Oh that will be the fascist trade unions of course

The only factual thing it tells us is that France is in total turmoil and you think that is due to what exactly?
Of course it couldn't possibly be anything to do with a failing economy, which had swung too far to the left and is now rebounding, and evidence of the failure of the European project. No of course not.
You will continue to believe what you believe

 

[tillson]

In the case of JCB and Dyson, they'll benefit from a weaker Pound and less red tape

That argument applies to Rolls Royce too and they back remain.

 

[trex]

of course it does, to a certain degree. Don't forget that RR need capital and stability more than a cheaper Pound.

 

[oldgroaner]

Why should we only listen to people who point out the negative impact of an exit from the UK on our economy?

There are plenty of people in business, some bigger, some smaller than yours, who tell us that leaving the EU will benefit the economy. I listen to both sides of the argument and make my decision. We do not need you to dictate to us which side of the argument we should listen to.

Quite right Tillson, you should listen to both sides before making a decision and no one should need to have that pointed out to them.

 

[trex]

Um!!
Extreme right wing policies of a left wing government?

it's a straightforward attempt to reform the employment contracts, making it easier for employers to let go of their staff more easily.
You can't touch this sort of things in France.

 

[tillson]

is there anyone you'd take advice from, on this matter?

Yes, I will listen to what you have to say and I will consider your advice. I will listen to and consider the advice of my brother-in-law, an Italian engineer and company owner who designs, manufactures and sells precision drilling equipment, to customers throughout the EU and China. I listen to the views of people in the audience of BBC debates. I will listen to the views of my work colleagues. I listen to and consider the views of my niece, Italian by birth, living in Switzerland, working in London as a lawyer and just successfully gained a UK passport. I am also in contact with ex-colleagues at Rolls Royce and I am interested to hear their opinions.

A varied mix of people with very different points of view. I then base my decision on what I feel is best for the future.

Thank you for your enquiry.

 

[oldgroaner]

Um!!
Extreme right wing policies of a left wing government?
Just goes to prove you are all cast in the same mold and as bad as each other, and it is the trade unions that are striking and burning tyres in the road. Oh that will be the fascist trade unions of course

The only factual thing it tells us is that France is in total turmoil and you think that is due to what exactly?
Of course it couldn't possibly be anything to do with a failing economy, which had swung too far to the left and is now rebounding, and evidence of the failure of the European project. No of course not.
You will continue to believe what you believe

That last line is your best yet!

 

[BrendanJ]

That last line is your best yet!

Aren't you busy coming up with some facts to quote us?
Don't forget when intellect fails, have a nice store of facts to fling around

 

[oldgroaner]

There you go again, accusing me of something i haven't done.

Not only have I not accused Brexiters of not understanding, I've acknowledged the disadvantages of Remaining.

So let me make it even more clear that I did on my previous answer:

Remaining has disadvantages. Leaving might have disadvantages.

But I'm prepared to accept the known Remain disadvantages for the possibility of the end game of union.

What is unfair or insulting about that?
.

I'll have a shot at that: Er..how about it provokes unwelcome doubt?

 

[oldgroaner]

Aren't you busy coming up with some facts to quote us?
Don't forget when intellect fails, have a nice store of facts to fling around

Wow, just when I thought you couldn't get more creative you come up with a Corker, which really does reinforce your earlier assertion that creative wishful thinking beats Science, facts and logic every time!
I stand in awe at the majesty of your intellect
That's great material you have there have you emailed Boris and Gove with permission to quote you?
It's streets ahead of the BS they're bombarding the public with.
They could use a little help from one so talented.

 

[BrendanJ]

it's a straightforward attempt to reform the employment contracts, making it easier for employers to let go of their staff more easily.
You can't touch this sort of things in France.

Trex, in principle you are correct, but for those that might get the wrong impression I should state having regularly spoken and visited my work colleagues infrance they have one of the most liberal regime for workers I have ever seen, never in Britain from the hours of work, holidays, Impossibility of letting staff go in even bad business circumstances, profit shares that make your eyes water with envy, the absolute dominance of the unions
And finally a socialist government , no less has woken up to the significant negative effects to the economy this all brings and is trying to redress this, for the benefits of the economy
But again I agree with you " fat chance in France"
So it takes to the streets in typical French style, which for sure the right wing will exploit, but it has its roots in left wing policies weak government and frankly too strong unions
And indeed if they are not careful could indeed lead to a truly right wing government coming to power

 

[oldgroaner]

should we start a new poll now?

Any other offers on the subject?

Facts please, and try to make them pertinent to my statement, and not wander off

 

[oldgroaner]

Any other offers on the subject?

There seem to be two Brendans on here one just came out with this"

"Don't forget when intellect fails, have a nice store of facts to fling around"
And his alter ego now says

"Facts please, and try to make them pertinent to my statement, and not wander off"
Have you suddenly changed your mind about facts? it's not too late you know, as here is a fact for you.
Its Referendum voting day tomorrow!
Vote Remain!

 

[flecc]

in france they have one of the most liberal regime for workers I have ever seen, never in Britain from the hours of work, holidays, Impossibility of letting staff go in even bad business circumstances, profit shares that make your eyes water with envy, the absolute dominance of the unions

Agreed, but I see that as highly desirable and what we should have. No system is all good and the dominance of the unions is the downside, but I think that worth suffering for the overwhelming benefits for ordinary employees.

Despite the very long period of criticism of France on this subject, they don't actually go bankrupt, do they? And that's despite building themselves an excellent infrastructure that makes the UK infrastructure look almost third world.

If there's mismanagement, it's that of the UK governments who have given us the worst of all worlds.
.