Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

The Express just posted the strangest Poll yet with the question
"Is a Briefcase enough to stop spies accessing Britains Brexit secrets?
The choices?
Defintely Not.................................37%
Yes we will still leave the EU.........63%

Well if nothing else it does give an insight into the readership

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit will help create a ‘greener, cleaner, better' planet, claims Michael Gove
Environment Secretary says he is in 'listening mode' and wants to hear people's 'concerns and hopes' for the natural world in post-Brexit Britain

Thinking about this he might have a point, he will set an example that the rest of the world take note of and avoid.

With him in charge the only place where the environment will get far, far worse is right here in the UK, after we import everyone else's rubbish, pollute the land and rivers with pesticides and GM crops ,destroy the fishing stocks and frack the countryside.

 

[oldtom]

While some of us worry about the here and now, 'Brexit' and the lunacy of a government only acting on behalf of the few, others are protesting peacefully about the nuclear weapons issue. That is the nuclear 'deterrent' that the tories want to update at a cost of £billions to the taxpayer.

When I was young, people marched from Aldermaston to Trafalgar Square to protest against nuclear weapons. Those demos attracted tens of thousands of people, people who cared about this country, cared about people and cared about humanity and the planet.

Somehow, over the decades, we have lost the spirit to challenge that fuelled those protestors. We have become inured to being a launchpad for American doomsday missiles except for a few hardy souls who share the beliefs of those who marched in the 1950s and 60s.

Here is what happened to some of those hardy souls recently:

15412112.Pensioners_face_THREE_WEEKS_of_jail_time_for_peacefully_protesting_nuclear_weapons

Tom

 

[Woosh]

we import everyone else's rubbish,

we already do. We import nuclear waste from the USA, the EU and some other places, extract usable remnants and keep the waste buried underground.

 

[oldtom]

Has anyone down your street had a 15% pay rise recently?

If ever there were any further evidence required that austerity is only for the many and not the few, this news from Kent about their tory-ruled council should seal it for those who continue to vote for the lying, cheating scum:

Remember, it's been around 1% for ordinary folks.

How will workers in Kent feel about that, now that the Conservatives running their county council have voted to increase their own pay by FIFTEEN TIMES AS MUCH?

And remember, this is a percentage increase; if councillors are already paid more than the people working for them, then the real-money increase is even more.

And no – this council has not discovered Theresa May’s “magic money tree” – the cash is coming from council taxpayers.

According to KentLive, councillors ignored independent advice that any increase in their allowances should be restricted to 1.5 per cent.

This means the raise on the basic member allowance would have been £195 – from £12,805 to £13,000.

But a 15 per cent increase would put the allowance up by £1,920.

And that’s only the basic allowance! In addition to that, council leader Paul Carter took a ‘special responsibility’ allowance of £42,109 – that’s £54,914 in total, not counting sundry expenses and subsistence claims. A 15 per cent increase on that is a whopping £8,237, putting his allowance up to £63,151.

By the way, in February this year, the same councillors supported a 3.99 per cent increase in council tax – while cutting services.

It seems the normally ultra-Conservative Taxpayers’ Alliance was right when grassroots campaign manager James Price said: “”Despite Kent County Council pleading poverty and raising council tax this year, they have somehow found this extra money down the back of the sofa – against independent advice…

“To line their own pockets.”

It's the tory way!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

we already do. We import nuclear waste from the USA, the EU and some other places, extract usable remnants and keep the waste buried underground.

And put up innocuous signs like the one in the lake District I passed recently

"LLW Repository"
http://llwrsite.com/
Hidden in plain sight with an innocuous notice, the most dangerous pollution risk on Earth
Here is a little note from the site that offers reassurance
"

Vault 8, the first of the engineered vaults to be constructed on the site, is an open, multi-barrier concrete structure set partially into the ground and comprising concrete lined walls and a drained floor slab.

Containers are stacked inside the vault in a similar arrangement to that used in a container port. Vault 8, which opened in 1988, has a total capacity of 200,000 cubic metres of waste and is nearly full. Vault 9 was completed in 2010. The project required timed deliveries of over 140,000 tonnes of aggregates and other building materials which had to be achieved with minimum disruption to local communities. The vast majority of construction materials were delivered to the site by rail rather than road, reducing potential road deliveries by 27,500 as over 98% of all construction materials were brought to the site by rail. The Vault 9 construction incorporates advances in technology, with its multiple layers of protection to provide both for the safe storage and final disposal of LLW. This vault has a capacity of 110,000 cubic metres – space for 5,500 containers – and is expected to be utilised for several decades, based on current waste estimates. When needed, further vaults will be constructed in line with National Waste Programme requirements.

Grouting

It is important that each container disposed of at LLWR Site contains minimal voidage. This is achieved by introducing a cement based grout into a container. This operation is carried out at the Grouting Facility, located close to the centre of the LLWR Site. First commissioned in 1995, the Grouting Facility returned to operations in December 2015 after a 12-month £1.8m upgrade.

Leachate Management System
Water from the trench drains and within Vaults 8 and 9 is collected as leachate in the leachate management system and is routed, predominantly by gravity flow, through interceptor drains. All leachate is routed to the Marine Holding Tanks.where it is pumped via a buried pipeline, to a discharge point in the Irish Sea. Every discharge is sampled to ensure the requirements of the Environmental Discharge Permit are achieved. The pipeline discharges into the sea through three diffusers at a distance of around 1.2 km off shore."

Reassured? Good for you, I am definitely NOT, and what a tempting target the installation makes for a potential aggressor.

Is the system Foolproof?
Dear Father had a saying that he used to aim at me (usually I deserved it)
"Nothing is Foolproof to the Talented Fool"

Even the fact that the location of "Vault 8, which opened in 1988, has a total capacity of 200,000 cubic metres of waste and is nearly full " is public knowledge.
Comes under that Caveat , why not paint a Target on the roof of the installation??
The Irish times is unimpressed
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/huge-nuclear-dump-near-sellafield-3443341
"
Environmentalists have described the site which is just kilometres from Dublin and the densely-populated east coast as a “slow motion Chernobyl”.

And as if that isn't bad enough, Gove is responsible for the Environment?

 

[oldgroaner]

Sign of the times in the Sun
"
CHANCELLOR Philip Hammond has sparked a sexism storm by saying driving trains is now so easy “even” a woman can do it.

He made the remark in front of the whole Cabinet — shocking female colleagues, including the PM."

That he holds such an attitude is no surprise, that what he said was blazoned to the Press tells us all very little remains of the closed ranks that the Tory cabinet used to be so proud of!

 

[Woosh]

And as if that isn't bad enough, Gove is responsible for the Environment?

We need to ask ourselves if the price of world's 6th ranking in economic power is worth the price we are paying.
I think not.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Tony Blair says BREXIT MUST NOT HAPPEN....but what political will is there for that to happen....Theresa May is Mrs Brexit controlled by the 80 Tory 'bastards' and Corbyn has achieved the cusp of power by being pro Brexit,that position keeps the working class/ex UKIP voters on his side.
There are noises about a second referendum,neither Labour nor Tory would
want that,it would be a tsunami if we voted to stay.
The Brexit horror truths are coming out,project fear is becoming reality,but it hasn't reach the Leave vote to an extent that is causing personal harm,we need massive job losses,tax rises,problems of travel,more austerity,hospital and care home closures(lack of staff), food price rises etc etc. We may need to go ahead with Brexit for everyone to suffer before there is an appetite amongst the Leavers to change their mind.
The mechanism to change our mind must be a second referendum ,not another election,as we found in the last one elections are too general,we need a specific vote on Brexit.
Just don't see where a second referendum will come from....for May that would be political suicide and cause war inside the Tory party,for Corbyn he doesn't feel brave enough to risk the backlash from his ex UKIP voters,Liberals are too small.....it needs a concensus from remainers across Labour and Tory who are pro remain but these are not strong enough to defy their leaders,there needs a catalyst for them to become brave and start making their voice heard.
Tony Blair has said all this but his voice is still toxic post Iraq.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

The mechanism to change our mind must be a second referendum ,not another election,

I don't think the two main parties have any appetite for a second referendum, they will lose more than enough voters to make the other party win at the next GE.
if TM is losing support in parliament, the only game in town is soft vs hard brexit at the next GE.

 

[Kudoscycles]

TV interviewers are saying that the country is 80% pro Brexit,because in the last election 80% of people voted for Tory and Labour. That is utter rubbish,the youngsters who voted Labour voted for no tuition fees and they want free movement of people...they saw Labour as having the best manifesto closest to what they wanted,Labour manifesto was pro Brexit but sufficiently vague to appear soft Brexit,Tory was definitely hard Brexit.
The Tories would have got a landslide victory in the election if she hadn't arrogantly assumed she could do what she liked,she felt all powerful,her attack on people's homes for social care,her attack on the pension lock,the winter fuel allowance was all an attack on her core vote,the oldies and she paid for her arrogance.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

only a coalition government would dare calling a second referendum by claiming the other guy twisting their arm.

 

[flecc]

We need to ask ourselves if the price of world's 6th ranking in economic power is worth the price we are paying.
I think not.

Agreed, and for me the price we pay for our nuclear weapon ranking is too high as well. I think we should join the overwhelming majority of countries and be more safe without them.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed, and for me the price we pay for our nuclear weapon ranking is too high as well. I think we should join the overwhelming majority of countries and be more safe without them.
.

Ironic but true the best Defense against Nuclear Weapons is not to have them, automatically making yourself a Target.

 

[Danidl]

Tony Blair says BREXIT MUST NOT HAPPEN....but what political will is there for that to happen....Theresa May is Mrs Brexit controlled by the 80 Tory 'bastards' and Corbyn has achieved the cusp of power by being pro Brexit,that position keeps the working class/ex UKIP voters on his side.
There are noises about a second referendum,neither Labour nor Tory would
want that,it would be a tsunami if we voted to stay.
The Brexit horror truths are coming out,project fear is becoming reality,but it hasn't reach the Leave vote to an extent that is causing personal harm,we need massive job losses,tax rises,problems of travel,more austerity,hospital and care home closures(lack of staff), food price rises etc etc. We may need to go ahead with Brexit for everyone to suffer before there is an appetite amongst the Leavers to change their mind.
The mechanism to change our mind must be a second referendum ,not another election,as we found in the last one elections are too general,we need a specific vote on Brexit.
Just don't see where a second referendum will come from....for May that would be political suicide and cause war inside the Tory party,for Corbyn he doesn't feel brave enough to risk the backlash from his ex UKIP voters,Liberals are too small.....it needs a concensus from remainers across Labour and Tory who are pro remain but these are not strong enough to defy their leaders,there needs a catalyst for them to become brave and start making their voice heard.
Tony Blair has said all this but his voice is still toxic post Iraq.
KudosDave

... Where does public service and patriotism have a role. I cannot believe that amongst the 500 MPs , that there are not sufficient who see Brexit as an unmitigated disservice to the UK, when will they act?. I don't want to get into UK politics, but John Major has been saying some sensible things.

 

[flecc]

I cannot believe that amongst the 500 MPs , that there are not sufficient who see Brexit as an unmitigated disservice to the UK, when will they act?.

They are as ever self-serving. If they vote against Brexit, everything that goes wrong with the economy subsequently could and often would be blamed on them.

On the other hand, a failed economy after Brexit would be the public's fault for that decision.
.

 

[Woosh]

I think everything considered, brexit voters are more likely to vote on this single issue than remain voters. Even in a constituency moderately remaining, it's suicidal for MPs to speak up against the referendum's result.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think everything considered, brexit voters are more likely to vote on this single issue than remain voters. Even in a constituency moderately remaining, it's suicidal for MPs to speak up against the referendum's result.

Not so

 

[flecc]

I think everything considered, brexit voters are more likely to vote on this single issue than remain voters.

I think that was true at the time of the referendum, emotion being a better driver to action than logic.

But no longer. Brexit is producing uncertainties that make that voting intention somewhat less secure. Conversely, the intense anger about the result among Remainers will be a very powerful driver. In addition, having sensed power, the young will turn out even more strongly for Remain.

The outcome of another referendum would be far more decisive and shock Brexiters.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Polly Toynbee is very much a remainer but a practical one. She thought that the current politics made a second referendum unlikely and there is not sufficient time for project fear to become such a reality that the Leave v Remain vote to be a definite result.
However,she thought the timing of a second referendum to be critical and maybe some event (possibly a major manufacturer sacking thousands to leave to Europe) would be needed to create the political change to make a second referendum an attractive idea.
KudosDave