Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Setting your ramblings and unnecessary nastiness aside, I made the point to illustrate that nationalism is present within the EU. Individual countries will always try to manipulate circumstances in order to favour themselves. Being in the EU makes no difference to this trait.

Actually none of the following was nasty
"
And since Human beings (allegedly) are running this country , and it was their selfishness that induced the population to vote for Brexit,
Incidentally playing on the very human emotions of Fear, Greed and Jealousy, plus false promises of better times and investment of the money in the NHS for support, just what the heck are you expecting to come out of this charade at the end of the day?
Congratulations, despite all the warnings behold the joys of Brexit."
It was simply the truth, but your points regarding EU politicians and their integrity were indeed nasty.

 

[oldgroaner]

we should leave the eu and bomb the fkn lot like ww2

Why do YOU actually want to leave the EU?
How have you failed to benefit from it?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
Boris shows the first sign on being sensible
"
Boris Johnson reveals he will NOT challenge May for Prime Minister until after Brexit
BORIS Johnson has ruled out a challenge to Theresa May’s position as Prime Minister while Brexit negotiations are ongoing.

He will wait till the proverbial stops hitting the Fan....very wise

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit voter was caught out when he told a radio presenter he wanted to take back control – but could not name a single EU law he opposed.

Shane, from Southall, called into LBC to explain his Leave vote.

He told presenter James O'Brien the EU had become a "fascist super-state controlled from Brussels" and its powers had expanded in the years since the days of the European Economic Community.

Asked to describe the laws he opposed, he said: "I'm not necessarily naming laws, I'm talking about the change."


The Maastrict Treaty represented "giving our power away", the caller added.

Questioned on whether he could be more specific about a law, or change in powers, he disliked, Shane said: "To tell you the truth, I can't."

Mr O'Brien then asked if it would be preferable for countries to have the power of veto over significant change, something that is already the case in a small number of policy areas.

"That would probably be something, yes," Shane replied.

"That still doesn't change the facts," he added, when told of the existence of the veto, which effectively exists in fields that require unanimous decisions among member countries.

"I don't like the fact that we've gone from one thing to another, without being informed," he said."

But of course we have been "informed" all along, albeit usually in the form of a pack of lies, to the extent that people like this chap have simply no idea at all about the EU, but a very set attitude against it.
This makes them willing victims to the Tory party and UKIP hard right.

 

[oldgroaner]

Is it possible that anyone at all could have been influenced by this man's arguments to leave the EU?
"
Boris Johnson in 'worst interview by a politician ever' following Queen's Speech
'It’s not a Two Ronnies sketch. You can’t answer the question before last'

Nobody, but nobody would be swayed by this "Jackass of all trades and Master of none"
Totally improbable.
What? they were? no way!

 

[Woosh]

From the Express
Boris shows the first sign on being sensible
"
Boris Johnson reveals he will NOT challenge May for Prime Minister until after Brexit
BORIS Johnson has ruled out a challenge to Theresa May’s position as Prime Minister while Brexit negotiations are ongoing.

He will wait till the proverbial stops hitting the Fan....very wise

he is indeed wise to wait for the kill before coming to the feast.

 

[oldgroaner]

he is indeed wise to wait for the kill before coming to the feast.

That is what any self respecting Hyaena would do.

 

[Woosh]

But of course we have been "informed" all along,

careful OG. Are you implying that he should not have been given a vote because of that?

 

[oldgroaner]

careful OG. Are you implying that he should not have been given a vote because of that?

I am at a loss to understand how you came to that conclusion simply because I stated this factual information,
"

But of course we have been "informed" all along, albeit usually in the form of a pack of lies, to the extent that people like this chap have simply no idea at all about the EU, but a very set attitude against it.
This makes them willing victims to the Tory party and UKIP hard right."

Where did your assumption come from? Voting rights were not mentioned, were they?

 

[Woosh]

what continues to baffle me is that not one remainer tory or labour MP has called for a new referendum.
If they believe that the result was wrong then surely, the logical thing to do is to organize or at least call for EUref2.

 

[oldgroaner]

what continues to baffle me is that not one remainer tory or labour MP has called for a new referendum.
If they believe that the result was wrong then surely, the logical thing to do is to organize or at least call for EUref2.

Perhaps neither side feels confident that it knows the public mood well enough, or even that they have developed a very sensible fear that Referendums are not the ideal way that a country should be run?
Taking back control as a Mantra seems to lack somewhat if you let the public make a binary choice.
It becomes, as we have already seen
Taking back control by the most convincing liars.

 

[oldtom]

If they believe that the result was wrong then surely, the logical thing to do is to organize or at least call for EUref2.

Doing nothing and relying on the 'will of the people' excuse is a far easier option. Logic has never played any part in political decision or indecision - it is simply about hanging on to the best unskilled job in the country, working part-time in the best club in London.

Can you even begin to imagine the hostility that calls for a further referendum would produce by right-wing extremists?

By the way, in the UK we spell 'organize' with an 's'. Americans use what they call 'zee' but in proper English, it is 'organise'. Do buck up!

Tom

 

[Woosh]

By the way, in the UK we spell 'organize' with an 's'. Americans use what they call 'zee' but in proper English, it is 'organise'. Do buck up!

I have just checked
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/

If I enter 'Organise' in the search box, OED changes it to 'organize'.
Statistically, organize seems to be the preferred form.

 

[flecc]

Why do YOU actually want to leave the EU?
How have you failed to benefit from it?

Soundwave wants to leave everything that shows any hint of civilised organisation.
.

 

[flecc]

in proper English, it is 'organise'.

Even though the English couldn't organise a vertical micturition assembly in an alcoholic drink production facility.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Doing nothing and relying on the 'will of the people' excuse is a far easier option. Logic has never played any part in political decision or indecision - it is simply about hanging on to the best unskilled job in the country, working part-time in the best club in London.

Can you even begin to imagine the hostility that calls for a further referendum would produce by right-wing extremists?

By the way, in the UK we spell 'organize' with an 's'. Americans use what they call 'zee' but in proper English, it is 'organise'. Do buck up!

Tom

I am tempted to ask how long does this
"Will of the People" last?
What has to happen before the knicker elastic fails and the public finds the Sun is burning their backside?
And they keep tripping up?
How are they going to " Unwill" it?

 

[flecc]

How are they going to " Unwill" it?

UKIP expediency once the Brexist outcome becomes unfavourable.

They can just change UKIP to mean United Kingdom Integration Party and campaign to join the EU.
.

 

[oldtom]

Even though the English couldn't organise a vertical micturition assembly in an alchoholic drink production facility.
.

That's a new one on me 'flecc'. I'm a great believer in the lifelong learning premise so I shall try to compartmentalise that one for some possible future scenario. I like it!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

Perhaps neither side feels confident that it knows the public mood well enough, or even that they have developed a very sensible fear that Referendums are not the ideal way that a country should be run?
Taking back control as a Mantra seems to lack somewhat if you let the public make a binary choice.
It becomes, as we have already seen
Taking back control by the most convincing liars.

... Unless you have a written consitution, and the referendum is to change the wording of it. It may seem quaint to be the only "democracy" , which does not have a written document, detailing the rights, obligations, and aspirations of both the governed and the government, but it is a fundamental weakness. Otherwise you are making it up as you go along. Lewis Carroll had it right..

 

[Woosh]

Taking back control by the most convincing liars.

No, I disagree.
Taking back control goes to the heart of the debate.
that argument transcends education attainment, wealth, family tradition. People can vote with confidence that they have understood the issue.
It is also the safest way to proceed, should the public mood changes because if brexit makes a lot of them poorer, the majority may change their view and vote to rejoin with the full understanding.