Brexit, for once some facts.

[martx007]

Greetings from estonia. Currently taking 2 months unpaid leave and getting used to leisure riding on flat dedicated bike paths where i am!(Into 2nd month of near unbroken sunshine!) So much more enjoyable to the drudgery of an early morning wet,hilly commute!


My Partner is estonian and we have a house in england and one in estonia so two mortgages at the moment, but will change eventually as she has a job over there now having worked in england for 6 years (paid income tax and never claimed a penny ) As a real world example I am still unsure of the implications of a brexit. My gut instinct is to remain. Will a brexit affect flights? will the reciprocal european health card still be honoured? If i decide to look for a job there, will it be made more difficult ?

Are these the kind of details that will take years to sort in the event of a brexit?

Any thoughts?

 

[trex]

it seems to me at times that this is much more about a fight between the two wings of the conservative party than an issue for a referendum. The last time the Tories had a big fight between themselves, Blair was the main beneficiary. I bet Corbyn quite enjoys sitting and watching. He's the one with more credibility than the current leaders of both camps.

 

[flecc]

As a real world example I am still unsure of the implications of a brexit. My gut instinct is to remain. Will a brexit affect flights? will the reciprocal european health card still be honoured? If i decide to look for a job there, will it be made more difficult ?

Are these the kind of details that will take years to sort in the event of a brexit?

Any thoughts?

Welcome to the Pedelecs forum Martin. I doubt you need to worry about any changes for many years. Switzerland isn't even a member, but just to get an incomplete trade agreement with the EU took them 7 years. If we vote to leave, we in the UK will need to get a more complex trade agreement and also negotiate to disentangle ourselves from all the EU membership legal linkages. Given the Swiss example and the many years Canada is taking to reach an EU trade agreement, I can see the UK negotiations going beyond ten years.

Meanwhile we will remain a member with no changes to the current situation.

And if other examples like Norway and Switzerland are anything to go by, at the end of the negotiations we will still have accepted free movement within the EU.
.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Greetings from estonia. Currently taking 2 months unpaid leave and getting used to leisure riding on flat dedicated bike paths where i am!(Into 2nd month of near unbroken sunshine!) So much more enjoyable to the drudgery of an early morning wet,hilly commute!

View attachment 14216
My Partner is estonian and we have a house in england and one in estonia so two mortgages at the moment, but will change eventually as she has a job over there now having worked in england for 6 years (paid income tax and never claimed a penny ) As a real world example I am still unsure of the implications of a brexit. My gut instinct is to remain. Will a brexit affect flights? will the reciprocal european health card still be honoured? If i decide to look for a job there, will it be made more difficult ?

Are these the kind of details that will take years to sort in the event of a brexit?

Any thoughts?

Alas Martin there is no way we can offer any more than a guess to the answers to your question, we are no better informed at this stage than you are and that is the problem.

It all boils down to a simple question; can we trust the British politicians to get a good deal and run the country efficiently if we leave the EU.?

My opinion for what it is worth is NO Brexit would be a mistake that we would survive, but not prosper.

 

[trex]

I think that the Brexiters can always dream but will have second thoughts in the days following Brexit when they see the mountain they have to climb suddenly becomes real.

 

[oldgroaner]

And today's Porky of the day comes from Gove.
"Michael Gove claims EU rules forced him to let criminals and terror suspects into Britain and warned he is powerless to stop it without Brexit"
The reality is
"The EU’s 2004 citizenship directive makes it clear that the free movement of people within the EU is not an unqualified right and can be restricted on grounds of “public policy, public security or public health”. This means that serious offenders can be denied entry and the right to live in Britain."

What he really meant to say was one of two things

1. He didn't know what he was talking about (possibly true)
2. He couldn't be bothered with the efffort of controlling the situation

And that is the more likely of the two, isn't it?

And yet people believe this man?
Quite extraordinary!
So let's sum up

• It is within our power to control undesirables coming in from the EU
• The Government is too greedy to be interested in defending out shores.

Perhaps we ought to use the RNLI as a model for defending our country?
Make the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard Charities funded by Public Subscription?
After all, if we had to rely on the Government to rescue people in distress at sea they would be drowning in droves, wouldn't they?
Compare that likely outcome with this
(Dated 2012) http://rnli.org/NewsCentre/Pages/The-RNLI-saves-its-140000th-life1.aspx

 

[trex]

if we want to have more influence in the EU, we have to stop sending ukip MEPs to Brussells.

 

[Gubbins]

Well here is what I think..

 

[oldgroaner]

Well here is what I think..

And the reason is?

 

[trex]

And the reason is?

he wants Corbyn as PM as soon as possible.

 

[Gubbins]

And the reason is?

I think the remains have just gone over the top and their dire warnings have become unbeleivable, so i have adopted my default position which is curbing imigration.. especially as the ruling classes are not affected by immigration.. they don't have problems getting doctors appointments and school places.. their quiet leafy suburbs won't change much either.

 

[trex]

migration so far is the result of market forces, we are doing better than the rest of the EU countries, so people come here to look for work, they certainly don't come here for the weather. It's a shame that the EU are obsessed with their utopian goals instead of taking a more practical approach sooner regarding freedom of movement (member countries are entitled to push on the emergency brakes that Cameron argued for).
I like the Australian point system, they have taken on proportionally more immigrants than we do without turning half the country against immigrants.

 

[Gubbins]

he wants Corbyn as PM as soon as possible.

I have been a labour voter all my life, like my father before me... but not any more.. especially not for Jeremy corbin.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think the remains have just gone over the top and their dire warnings have become unbeleivable, so i have adopted my default position which is curbing imigration.. especially as the ruling classes are not affected by immigration.. they don't have problems getting doctors appointments and school places.. their quiet leafy suburbs won't change much either.

And what sort of immigration had you in mind?
By the way it would be worth taking a look at this, which will dispel some of the "Urban Myths" put out by the Brexit camp about people coming here to see what they can get out of the system.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-claiming-benefits-as-a-jobseeker/
They are leading the public astray will deliberate lies.

 

[oldgroaner]

I have been a labour voter all my life, like my father before me... but not any more.. especially not for Jeremy corbin.

Actully you haven't been a Labour supporter all your life, there hasn't been a "Labour Party" for a very long time, the Conservatives simply fielded their "B" team.

 

[Gubbins]

Actully you haven't been a Labour supporter all your life, there hasn't been a "Labour Party" for a very long time, the Conservatives simply fielded their "B" team.

Recently I have been voting ukip, probably as a protest, but I am coming to like that blond fella from London...

 

[oldgroaner]

migration so far is the result of market forces, we are doing better than the rest of the EU countries, so people come here to look for work, they certainly don't come here for the weather. It's a shame that the EU are obsessed with their utopian goals instead of taking a more practical approach sooner regarding freedom of movement (member countries are entitled to push on the emergency brakes that Cameron argued for).
I like the Australian point system, they have taken on proportionally more immigrants than we do without turning half the country against immigrants.

There is an interesting caveat on the Right to free movement around the EU that would bear some scrutiny and I quote
"

• There are limitations based on considerations of public security, public policy, public health grounds and employment in the public sector.

What is to stop us declaring is is "public policy" to apply restrictions?
Is "public policy" something only the EU parliament can apply, or can individual member states?

 

[oldgroaner]

Recently I have been voting ukip, probably as a protest, but I am coming to like that blond fella from London...

That seems like a good choice to me, and practical too
If you have a spare fishing rod, he would look great next to the garden pond

 

[trex]

the real problem for Cameron is that his conservative government encourages immigration from the EU because it boosts GDP (and tax revenue) quickly without creating a pressure on wages. You can easily understand this from the point of view of a conservative land owner.

 

[Gubbins]

What they all seem to miss, and it was the same in the Scottish referendum, is that whoever wins nearly half of the population will have voted against...