Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

We can of course unilaterally charge zero tariff for importing from the EU to help our consumers and manufacturing companies.
But there is a plausible theory that we will use article 24 of the WTO rules to negotiate a 10 years of 'zero for zero' tariff as part of transitional arrangements with the EU.

http://www.politico.eu/article/britain-10-year-interim-zero-for-zero-trade-deal-brexit/

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

We can of course unilaterally charge zero tariff for importing from the EU to help our consumers and manufacturing companies.

If we charge zero on imports, it won't help out manufacturing, it'll keep it the same. Ie we'll be competing on a level playing field (tariff wise) with manufacturers in Europe. However we can do what we like, clearly, but of other countries want to protect / support and grow their manufacturers they could put tariffs on our exports (their imports) to make UK made goods un competitive and strengthen their home businesses. We are a small country, we don't have the power to "demand" much.

 

[Woosh]

There is little probability that the EU is going to oppose some zero for zero deals on important industrial products like cars, airplane parts, trains, generators etc because of the existing integrated manufacturing chains.
Remainers will see difficulty wherever possible, brexiters won't want to hear about it. The division will last until we leave the EU. Then deal or no deal, everyone will claim that it's a bad deal and 'I've told you so'.

 

[Danidl]

There is little probability that the EU is going to oppose some zero for zero deals on important industrial products like cars, airplane parts, trains, generators etc because of the existing integrated manufacturing chains.
Remainers will see difficulty wherever possible, brexiters won't want to hear about it. The division will last until we leave the EU. Then deal or no deal, everyone will claim that it's a bad deal and 'I've told you so'.

..
Remainers and manufacturers in the rest of the EU will not have difficulty with that scenario provided. 1. The same technical standards are maintained. 2. The same legal framework is used to iron out the inevitable conflicts. And 3 workers unions don't block work from "slave labour" economies

 

[Woosh]

Brexit A50 day is 29th March.

TBH, I would like us to stay within the EU Customs Union - going out in the big wide world without much industrial USPs is a bit risky.

 

[oldtom]

Some people might wish to place the attached infographic in a safe place for future reference:



So, essentially we will have pretty well everything we have now as members of the EU club except that we won't ever have to pay any more subscriptions. That sounds like a sure-fire winner to me! Why didn't someone think of that before?

Tom

 

[Danidl]

Some people might wish to place the attached infographic in a safe place for future reference:

View attachment 18267

So, essentially we will have pretty well everything we have now as members of the EU club except that we won't ever have to pay any more subscriptions. That sounds like a sure-fire winner to me! Why didn't someone think of that before?

Tom

... Actually what he has come up with are proposals. Agreements are not exactly the same thing....

 

[anotherkiwi]

So Erasmus, European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) – regional and urban development, European Social Fund (ESF) – social inclusion and good governance, Cohesion Fund (CF) – economic convergence by less-developed regions, European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) , European Maritime and Fisheries Fund (EMFF), etc., etc. aren't benefiting the UK. Well, well, well... No wonder you want out if you weren't getting all of those!

 

[anotherkiwi]

Not been seeing benefits from the EU? This may provide an answer:

"Funding is managed according to strict rules to ensure there is tight control over how funds are used and that the money is spent in a transparent, accountable manner.

As a group, the 28 EU Commissioners have the ultimate political responsibility for ensuring that EU funds are spent properly. But because most of the funding is managed within the beneficiary countries, responsibility for conducting checks and annual audits lies with national governments." (My bold text)

The EU hasn't been doing any good for the UK? Look who's fault that would be, your UK government!!!

 

[Woosh]

No wonder you want out if you weren't getting all of those!

We pay in more than we get out.
Over the last 40 years, it is estimated that our net contribution to the EU's budget is about 350-400bn.
plus loss of control.
that upsets some.

 

[flecc]

Over the last 40 years, it is estimated that our net contribution to the EU's budget is about 350-400bn.
plus loss of control.

About £160 a year per UK head. But if we include the concealed benefit of all the much cheaper-than-UK-costs holidays and housing we've had in the poorer EU countries, we haven't lost anything. We're probably in credit balance.

And any loss of control was due to our refusal to fully join in. If we had fully joined in we could have been jointly with Germany and France the most influential nations regarding setting EU policy

 

[oldgroaner]

... Actually what he has come up with are proposals. Agreements are not exactly the same thing....

Perhaps he has been Brassoing a Magic Lamp?

 

[oldgroaner]

We pay in more than we get out.
Over the last 40 years, it is estimated that our net contribution to the EU's budget is about 350-400bn.
plus loss of control.
that upsets some.

Who's estimates are those by the way?
And what loss of control would that be? because we sent Hooligans to be MEPS instead of Politicians?
The real problem has been throughout the atttude of the UK Goverment and it's continuously blaming it's own incompetence on being restricted by the EU when that was nonsense.

 

[Woosh]

Who's estimates are those by the way?

#

Our net contribution to the EU in 2016 is also about 8.5bn
I only did a quick adding up. The figure may have been a bit lower, £250-300bn.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

#

Our net contribution to the EU in 2016 is also about 8.5bn
I only did a quick adding up. The figure may have been a bit lower, £250-300bn.

You're not including all the non public sector receipts. I met an eBike dealer just last month who has a hire fleet that was funded by an EU grant for his private business. So that's another massive source of income for the UK for private business and charties (both not including in the public sector receipts) that will be lost to a post Brexit UK.

 

[Woosh]

You're not including all the non public sector receipts.

possibly substantial. I have not seen any stats but not in billions a year though.
The problem I find with the EU is a usual problem that you'll find in any bureaucratic apparatus: they grow over time. Their budget will increase year after year, eventually drown what is a basically good idea.

 

[flecc]

The problem I find with the EU is a usual problem that you'll find in any bureaucratic apparatus: they grow over time. Their budget will increase year after year, eventually drown what is a basically good idea.

Once again the answer to that was to join in properly to hasten full union. That would mean the European Commission and the EU Council disbanded and just the democratic EU parliament as the federal government.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The problem is if you want money from the EU you have to ask for it. If your government hasn't been asking for enough that isn't the EU's fault. If private enterprise isn't aware of the research grants and whatever it isn't the EU's fault.

The ex-chairwoman of the French business owners union was on TV yesterday and I found her comments pertinent (she is close to the right wing mainstream parties so not exactly my side of the board). On the EU:

1. There is bureaucracy creep, it is a problem and it has to be fixed
2. When the EU does something badly (more occasionally than frequently) it is immediately blown out of all proportion
3. When the EU does something excellent (more often than one would think) it is invisible

You are a stuck on points one and two. If you had elected politicians to represent the UK in the EU parliament they could have helped fix what is wrong. You decided to elect w....ers instead...

 

[oldtom]

So, let's take stock; where are we at this moment with regard to the EU?

This little list doesn't seem to miss much:



Seems like a fairly accurate synopsis to me!

Tom

 

[Woosh]

that was funny but incorrect.

Much of what we want from the EU is easy for the EU to agree and dare I say, in the EU own interest to get as much done as possible:

1. zero for zero tariff on a large range of goods
2. we are willing to pay a small access fees for our service exporters and bank passporting for our banks under the equivalence scheme
3. paying participation to some EU programs (education, research, drugs, atomic energy etc)

We don't care much for sharing the rest.