Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

I have seen Brexiters on question time who exhibit 1-4,usually accompanied by 'We won,yah boo,you lost'.
I think Remainers are being quite constrained considering they don't have a voice in parliament who appears to be able to compete with Dictator May.
Whatever comes out of Brexit May has to satisfy the poor,the jams,small and big business,the EU and the rest of the world....all must be achieved in 2 years.
If she fails there is a massive vacuum in British politics for a new centre ground party,combining disgruntled Leavers and disgruntled Remainers....UKIP and Labour will be history and voters will be sick of May's deception....the Liberals plus the new party would be a powerful party,May cannot fail.
KudosDave

You make lots of sense Dave but there are somanys iffs and whens in your argument. Who is there to lead this centre ground party , would need a fledgling organisation and new leader, in mean time Tories just change tack a bit , pull back lost voters and stay in power. There just is no one ? I said it pages ago but the only one with enough acumen is the shorter cleverer Milliband...he,s not even broke cover yet. Blair and Corbyn are merely ensuring Labour cant fill the void. Cleggy has gone back to Holmfirth.
Way uts looking we,ve got Tories for another 12 years...

OG
Perhaps if you tried to make an argument without putting averybody down you might get an idea of what's happening.
At rhe moment yourself and Tom just want to personalise any discussion and in so doing miss the big picture. The Brexit process gathered momentum yesterday, people are not deserting iit by any means, possibly the reverse.

 

[oldgroaner]

All you and the others are achieving is cementing the notion into peoples minds that you have lost the plot. I'm sorry to have to say that. Not necessarily you, but the BREXIDIOT, racist, xenophobic, Nazi nonsense has to stop if people are to listen and take the counter argument seriously. Otherwise you push people further away and that is what's happening.

You really do believe that don't you? throughout I have simply pointed out the very obvious cracks in the argument for Brexit and not called anyone fancy names, simply pointed out that they have been misled by con men and women, and a continuous campaign of propaganda.
If you bother to check you will find as I stated earlier that there is a huge disparity with the invective being used by the Pro and anti Brexit camps, and the balance of protest, threats lies and insinuations is far more from the leave camp in numerical and content terms, where they have even gone so far as to hold the law itself and those who administer it in contempt.

It has never been my intention to interfere, delay or subvert this country from leaving the EU

On the contrary, throughout I welcome the day that happens, because I regard it as being the sharp lesson that the people of this country need to learn before they come to their senses and organise the Government away from being nothing more than parasites into serving the people.

At that point we will rejoin the EU and start to behave as a normal rational group of people instead of this left over nation that has been run in ways that have not improved since the time of the Norman Conquest.

Save your sermons for children, who might not have developed sufficiently to see what backward looking nonsense you are uttering.
You are simply perpetuating a failed system that will not change, adapt or serve the interest of the people, only the Elite.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
Perhaps if you tried to make an argument without putting averybody down you might get an idea of what's happening.
At rhe moment yourself and Tom just want to personalise any discussion and in so doing miss the big picture. The Brexit process gathered momentum yesterday, people are not deserting iit by any means, possibly the reverse.

You are doing the very things you complain about at every opportunity, and you don't see that do you?

 

[Kudoscycles]

You make lots of sense Dave but there are somanys iffs and whens in your argument. Who is there to lead this centre ground party , would need a fledgling organisation and new leader, in mean time Tories just change tack a bit , pull back lost voters and stay in power. There just is no one ? I said it pages ago but the only one with enough acumen is the shorter cleverer Milliband...he,s not even broke cover yet. Blair and Corbyn are merely ensuring Labour cant fill the void. Cleggy has gone back to Holmfirth.
Way uts looking we,ve got Tories for another 12 years...

OG
Perhaps if you tried to make an argument without putting averybody down you might get an idea of what's happening.
At rhe moment yourself and Tom just want to personalise any discussion and in so doing miss the big picture. The Brexit process gathered momentum yesterday, people are not deserting iit by any means, possibly the reverse.

So,we all must join hands and run over the cliff...it will be ok because only Mrs May has told us that the sand will brake our fall.
All the experts tell us we will be dead but Mrs May is in charge,we all trust her and must do what she says.
I am a traitor and will defy 'the will of the people' ,just wait awhile and stay at the top of the cliff.
So Brexiters get lined up,I will hold the camera.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

OG
Thought I would be...lets see who next one to insult is ?

Dave
Dont worry its not a big cliff.

 

[tillson]

Just flicking through the TV channels. Nigel Farage is on ITV now. It might be on ITV Hub later if you mis it.

 

[D8ve]

Just flicking through the TV channels. Nigel Farage is on ITV now. It might be on ITV Hub later if you mis it.

Oh dear itv hub broken, missed it bigley.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Just flicking through the TV channels. Nigel Farage is on ITV now. It might be on ITV Hub later if you mis it.

Till son....Thanks for letting us know,I may have accidentally clicked on ITV.....have also warned my family,the kids are easily scared these days.
Actually Nigel will be busy this year....be putting some air miles winding up the right in the US,France,Germany and Holland.
I always find it amusing that he is financed as an MEP,within an organisation that he cannot stand but happy to collect their funds,even though he appears to never be there.
I don't suppose we will see much of him in the UK,job done here wrecking our country and UKIP has revealed its roots and is seeping toxic from every orifice.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Multiple news outlets denied access to White House press briefing
The Guardian, New York Times, CNN and more were barred from ‘gaggle’ hours after Trump once again called much of the media an ‘enemy of American people’
Outlets seeking to gain entry whose requests were denied included the Guardian, the New York Times, Politico, CNN, BuzzFeed, the BBC, the Daily Mail and others. Conservative publications such as Breitbart News, the One America News Network and the Washington Times were allowed into the meeting, as well as TV networks CBS, NBC, Fox and ABC. The Associated Press and Time were invited but boycotted the briefing.

There's nothing like the hypocrisy of right wing politicians is there and what better example than Trump and his tame Goons.

The following is from the New York Times
"
Mr. Trump, in his attack on the news media at the conservative gathering, complained at length about the use of anonymous sources in news stories, charging that some reporters were fabricating unnamed sources to level unfair charges against him.

“They shouldn’t be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody’s name,” Mr. Trump said. “Let their name be put out there.”

At another point, he said, “A few days ago, I called the fake news the enemy of the people because they have no sources — they just make it up.” He added that his “enemy of the people” label applied only to “dishonest” reporters and editors.

Those comments came shortly after his own aides had held a briefing for the White House press pool on the condition of anonymity to deny CNN’s story suggesting there had been improper contact between the White House and the F.B.I. regarding the Times article on Russian contacts.

“He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot.”

Groucho Marx

 

[Steve A]

I personally voted to remain. Not because i'm a fan of the EU government, but felt it was easier to try and change the system when your sat round the table being proactive, and also i want stability for my children.
Many of the older, i'm alright jack brigade voted leave. Anyway, the father in laws already moaning about the cost of heading off to the continent this year, but he's a typical Mail reader and voted leave .
Ah, what happened to those lovely old prewar pensioners, died of course. Now we have the baby boomers full of self entitlement. Thank god i'm clever enough not to be paying for their pensions.
I'll say no more, nor bite!.

 

[RobF]

Till son....Thanks for letting us know,I may have accidentally clicked on ITV.....have also warned my family,the kids are easily scared these days.
Actually Nigel will be busy this year....be putting some air miles winding up the right in the US,France,Germany and Holland.
I always find it amusing that he is financed as an MEP,within an organisation that he cannot stand but happy to collect their funds,even though he appears to never be there.
I don't suppose we will see much of him in the UK,job done here wrecking our country and UKIP has revealed its roots and is seeping toxic from every orifice.
KudosDave

Farage has consistently campaigned against the EU.

His chosen method - 'inside the tent, peeing in' - has proved to be more effective than the more obvious 'outside the tent, peeing in' approach.

You may disagree with his politics, but to try to ridicule him as a hypocrite is inaccurate.

 

[tillson]

Till son....Thanks for letting us know,I may have accidentally clicked on ITV.....have also warned my family,the kids are easily scared these days.
Actually Nigel will be busy this year....be putting some air miles winding up the right in the US,France,Germany and Holland.
I always find it amusing that he is financed as an MEP,within an organisation that he cannot stand but happy to collect their funds,even though he appears to never be there.
I don't suppose we will see much of him in the UK,job done here wrecking our country and UKIP has revealed its roots and is seeping toxic from every orifice.
KudosDave

I didn't watch all of the interview with Farage because I had to be up early this morning. I have recorded it to watch later.

From what I saw of the programme, I thought that Farage came across satisfactorily. So, what is it that is so scary? Or is it the case that you disagree with Farage's politics so have decided to slur and discredit him?

Farage is an elected member of the European Parliament. His stated ambition has always been to take the UK out of the EU. He has never made any secret of this. The tactic he has chosen to achieve the objective has been to become an MEP and to expose the failings of the EU publically right from the heart of the organisation. This he has carried off splendidly and he has made many eloquent speeches when addressing the European Parliament. This tactic has worked and he has been successful is setting the UK on a course out of the EU.

This has been the stated aim, Farage is an elected member of the EU and he has a legitimate right to a payment. Tactically, I think it is clever that he has the EU paying him for his anti-EU work and much of what he has achieved would not have been possible without the forum of the EU Parliament for him to speak.

You can not deny that Farage declared his stated aim, developed a strategy and executed it very well. More than can be said for may MEPs.

 

[Wicky]

Farage has consistently campaigned against the EU.

His chosen method - 'inside the tent, peeing in' - has proved to be more effective than the more obvious 'outside the tent, peeing in' approach.

You may disagree with his politics, but to try to ridicule him as a hypocrite is inaccurate.

'Man of the people' NIGEL Farage has said he is living like a 'virtual prisoner' and is 'frightened' to leave his home because of the way the media has 'demonised' him and given him a bad name... so seeks sanctuary in Golden Towers and joins Fox News and whored himself for the publicity in the media he can't control he so despises.

Shy retiring Farage held prisoner at home.

Mr Farage denied that Ukip had racist positions, saying: "Our policies are common-sense policies and when you look at the sheer hundreds of hours of interviews and speeches I have done, you really struggle to find anything you can put in that category."

Just a few short hours after “tired out” Nigel Farage made a semi-apology for his comments about undesirable Romanian neighbours,

Asked about his comments on Sunday during an ITV interview, Farage said: “I regret the fact that I was, sort of, completely tired out, and I didn’t chose, I didn’t use the form of words in response that I would have liked to have used.

In an interview with Piers Morgan, Farage said he had sung “Two World Wars and One World Cup” to second wife, Kirsten – who recently revealed the couple were living separately.

The former UKIP leader also said his wife would hang out German flags during England games, in the interview for Piers Morgan’s Life Stories.

The presenter said to the former UKIP leader: “It’s just so ironic isn’t it that there’s you, the great UKIP trailblazer taking on the European establishment and there’s your wife with her German flags…”

Farage replied: “It’s quite funny really isn’t it.”

Hilarious...
and in other gags...

Farage blames immigration for traffic on M4 after no-show at Ukip reception
Leader says late arrival at Port Talbot event because ‘population is going through roof’ and ‘M4 not as navigable as it used to be’

 

[oldgroaner]

This has been the stated aim, Farage is an elected member of the EU and he has a legitimate right to a payment. T

And he has a legitimate right to WORK for the money, frankly he does not have the right to FORGET that as an MEP he has also the responsibility to act as a representative of his constituents who did NOT want to leave the EU on matters under debate regrading normal business other than EU membership
His track record on that is absolute ZERO.

He has instead taken the MEP position as being one to be played for personal advantage by doing the least possible work and having the second worst attendance record next to an MEP whos is incapacitated for medical reasons.

Far from being Eloquent his speeches have all been arrogant, insulting and offensive.
The man is a Parasite, and now irrelevant, as is the Far right bunch of nut cases that call themselves the UKIP party .

He didn't foist the referendum on us, Cameron did by overreacting to this buffoon and his flying circus of a party threatening to leech Tory support in elections.
Cameron would have been far better advised to ignore the man, but then we was an even bigger fool.

 

[RobF]

'Man of the people' NIGEL Farage has said he is living like a 'virtual prisoner' and is 'frightened' to leave his home because of the way the media has 'demonised' him and given him a bad name... so seeks sanctuary in Golden Towers and joins Fox News and whored himself for the publicity in the media he can't control he so despises.

Shy retiring Farage held prisoner at home.

Mr Farage denied that Ukip had racist positions, saying: "Our policies are common-sense policies and when you look at the sheer hundreds of hours of interviews and speeches I have done, you really struggle to find anything you can put in that category."

Just a few short hours after “tired out” Nigel Farage made a semi-apology for his comments about undesirable Romanian neighbours,

Asked about his comments on Sunday during an ITV interview, Farage said: “I regret the fact that I was, sort of, completely tired out, and I didn’t chose, I didn’t use the form of words in response that I would have liked to have used.

In an interview with Piers Morgan, Farage said he had sung “Two World Wars and One World Cup” to second wife, Kirsten – who recently revealed the couple were living separately.

The former UKIP leader also said his wife would hang out German flags during England games, in the interview for Piers Morgan’s Life Stories.

The presenter said to the former UKIP leader: “It’s just so ironic isn’t it that there’s you, the great UKIP trailblazer taking on the European establishment and there’s your wife with her German flags…”

Farage replied: “It’s quite funny really isn’t it.”

Hilarious...
and in other gags...

Farage blames immigration for traffic on M4 after no-show at Ukip reception
Leader says late arrival at Port Talbot event because ‘population is going through roof’ and ‘M4 not as navigable as it used to be’

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, other than to further demonise Farage.

Something which few people could take and remain sane - he has enormous strength of character.

He has also cleverly gained massive traction for his minority party and its views.

Something which other minority parties - the Greens for example - have abjectly failed to do.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
Thought I would be...lets see who next one to insult is ?

Is this a rearrange the words to unravel the hidden meaning game?

 

[oldgroaner]

He has also cleverly gained massive traction for his minority party and its views.

You don't really believe that do you?
Why aren't they winning elections then?

 

[RobF]

You don't really believe that do you?
Why aren't they winning elections then?

It's self-evident.

On your account, Cameron only called the EU referendum by 'over reacting' to Farage.

That's why he's so clever, UKIP has a tiny constituency and very little real power.

Yet Farage is able to exert great influence.

If the Greens had someone of his calibre we'd all be eating lentils.

 

[tillson]

Multiple news outlets denied access to White House press briefing
The Guardian, New York Times, CNN and more were barred from ‘gaggle’ hours after Trump once again called much of the media an ‘enemy of American people’
Outlets seeking to gain entry whose requests were denied included the Guardian, the New York Times, Politico, CNN, BuzzFeed, the BBC, the Daily Mail and others. Conservative publications such as Breitbart News, the One America News Network and the Washington Times were allowed into the meeting, as well as TV networks CBS, NBC, Fox and ABC. The Associated Press and Time were invited but boycotted the briefing.

There's nothing like the hypocrisy of right wing politicians is there and what better example than Trump and his tame Goons.

The following is from the New York Times
"
Mr. Trump, in his attack on the news media at the conservative gathering, complained at length about the use of anonymous sources in news stories, charging that some reporters were fabricating unnamed sources to level unfair charges against him.

“They shouldn’t be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody’s name,” Mr. Trump said. “Let their name be put out there.”

At another point, he said, “A few days ago, I called the fake news the enemy of the people because they have no sources — they just make it up.” He added that his “enemy of the people” label applied only to “dishonest” reporters and editors.

Those comments came shortly after his own aides had held a briefing for the White House press pool on the condition of anonymity to deny CNN’s story suggesting there had been improper contact between the White House and the F.B.I. regarding the Times article on Russian contacts.

“He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot.”

Groucho Marx

I can empathise with some, but not all, of Trump's sentiments regarding the media. The BBC failed to de-rail his presidential campaign with a quite disgusting hatchet job documentary. Most of the comments and allegation were hearsay with very few, if any corroborated sources.

The BBC are still subtly attempting to sabotage the planned state visit. They were giving disproportionate air time to a bearded yobo who was wearing a jacket constructed entirely from lettuce and celery. He was jumping up and down making wild accusations about Trump. There was also a lady on the same interview leaping about and generally acting in a similarly disorderly fashion? it really was a terrible sight.

This rabble need to learn how to protest with dignity and to respect democracy. They can register their disapproval of Trump, but that's it. He is the elected head of state, he will visit the UK and he will be graciously received by Her Majesty the Queen.

I am sure that there were people who disagreed with Obama and some of his policies, but those people knew how to conduct themselves. they accepted that he was the democratically elected leader of the USA. They allowed democracy to prevail, despite the fact that he chose to repay the hospitality of the British people by making threats in order to try and influence the EU referendum. Anyway, he is gone and forgotten now.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet Farage is able to exert great influence.

You missed the point completely,
Farage's influence was only over certain members of the Tory Party, the idea that it was over the mass of the Public is pure invention after the event.
But it does show the suggestive power of the Press over the Public imagination.