Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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There was a time when a buffoon like Johnson could not do much harm to the economy but that time is gone. Sunak has good presentation skills and a sharp brain plus traditional economics instincts.
 
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I893469365902345609348566

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Oct 20, 2021
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Why is this youtube video of lightening have a title indicating its an official trailer for the Matrix4
??
Because it got more views. Nobody watches my videos :confused:

That lightning appared to happen in one part of the sky. It strobed for hours in one spot. I guess a lot of epileptics died that night.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Now there's a paradigm if ever I read one.
we do appear to have completed our experiment with a paradigm (neoliberal trickle down economics and brexit). But (obviously) market credibility and economic survival isn't as important as what the red wall thinks (& the fact that Boris does seem an all round good bloke). I think we should have another run at it, get boris in, borrow a few hundred billion quid more, it's only money after all.
 
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Zlatan

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we do appear to have completed our experiment with a paradigm (neoliberal trickle down economics and brexit). But (obviously) market credibility and economic survival isn't as important as what the red wall thinks (& the fact that Boris does seem an all round good bloke). I think we should have another run at it, get boris in, borrow a few hundred billion quid more, it's only money after all.
Agreed, but it says something about Starmer when he, s up against the most shambolic, discredited, corrupt and down right incompetent government in countries' entire history and his chances of getting in no 10 are about same as MUFC winning league this year. Actually probably worse.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Agreed, but it says something about Starmer when he, s up against the most shambolic, discredited, corrupt and down right incompetent government in countries' entire history and his chances of getting in no 10 are about same as MUFC winning league this year. Actually probably worse.
half agree, am not crazy about Starmer (seems a professional politician who's about as principled as the next set of focus group results). But his lack of populist appeal is quite refreshing after all the brexit tripe that's been poured over the electorate for the past few years.
 

oyster

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From where we are, Starmer is at the very least an essential stepping stone to a better government.

As I see it, we need to look at getting much closer to the EU, with (I hope) an eventual rejoining or not far off. Getting Labour to the point at which that becomes their policy might take time and be a hard path.
 
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Zlatan

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half agree, am not crazy about Starmer (seems a professional politician who's about as principled as the next set of focus group results). But his lack of populist appeal is quite refreshing after all the brexit tripe that's been poured over the electorate for the past few years.
Yep, perhaps. What has become apparent, which we should all know, is that a none functioning party produces a none functioning government. But even worse, with a none functioning party in opposition we don't even have a democracy.
We have a single party failing dictatorship, with the mechanics to remove just the head. This system, for want of a better word, has given us Brexit, Boris, May and Truss. What next?
The failing Labour Party has contributed to this shocking situation. Starmer is simply the tip of the crumbling ice berg that was once our great Labour movement.
 
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guerney

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As usual, lazy Boris spent too long holidaying. The membership would have chosen BJ. Blatant Boris-style lies as attacks might not be sneaky enough for Sneaky Sunak. Herr Starmer can get the Red Wall onside by demanding to see his papers "VERE IS YOUR PASSPORT?!? VERE VERE YOU BORN?!?"

I know racist Tory Councillors who say they will never vote for Sunak
 
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Woosh

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Yep, perhaps. What has become apparent, which we should all know, is that a none functioning party produces a none functioning government. But even worse, with a none functioning party in opposition we don't even have a democracy.
We have a single party failing dictatorship, with the mechanics to remove just the head. This system, for want of a better word, has given us Brexit, Boris, May and Truss. What next?
The failing Labour Party has contributed to this shocking situation. Starmer is simply the tip of the crumbling ice berg that was once our great Labour movement.
it was JC who gave a thumping majority to BJ who later supported Truss to replace him.
Starmer succeeded in making Labour a credible alternative in just 2 years. Not a bad result.
 
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guerney

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Starmer succeeded in making Labour a credible alternative in just 2 years. Not a bad result.
The prospect of Sunak managing to steady the Tory nutso bandwagon within 2 years, is depressing.
 

Woosh

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Agreed, but it says something about Starmer when he, s up against the most shambolic, discredited, corrupt and down right incompetent government in countries' entire history and his chances of getting in no 10 are about same as MUFC winning league this year. Actually probably worse.
Remember the tortoise and the hare?
The tories could not sort themselves out in the last year. That says clearly that putting one's house in order is actuually a very difficult task. Starmer did this brilliantly, so don't put him down just yet.
 
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Zlatan

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it was JC who gave a thumping majority to BJ who later supported Truss to replace him.
Starmer succeeded in making Labour a credible alternative in just 2 years. Not a bad result.
You are using paradigms again Woosh.
Starmer and credible in same sentence to start with. He has none. His only chance is a coalition. Which is startling considering state of Tories.
It's not Starmer in isolation. It's everything both the party and he has come to represent. Labour has grown to represent every minority so deemed oppressed group that exists and in mean time forgotten what it should be doing. Tick box diversity, wokeness, anti prejudiced, LGBT rights has replaced working policies on defence, education and the economy. Starmer simply attempts to offer some form of alternative to the Tories (and on many the same thing). Labour Party lost its vote base, direction and ethics years ago.
We need a new party and a new system to put it in power. All our parties are broken. Labour equally, if not more, than Tories.
It's not just a case of Starmer becoming PM he needs the staff and policies to make a difference. He has neither. Country will be no better off even if he is brought in as Tory substitute.
 

Woosh

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All our parties are broken.
that is true of the tories. None of the opposition parties is broken at the moment. That's why recent polls gave the tories only 14% of the potential votes, just 3 points above the LibDems.
That's probably what Johnson thought when he decided not to run. For once, he would be correct.
 
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oyster

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that is true of the tories. None of the opposition parties is broken at the moment. That's why recent polls gave the tories only 14% of the potential votes, just 3 points above the LibDems.
That's probably what Johnson thought when he decided not to run. For once, he would be correct.
The level of tory support is readily accessible even from the Caribbean. He made a huge mistake in his assessment that he could get enough tory MPs to occupy the 150-ish government positions.

And his giving up speech was all "I" (19 of them in a short piece) and me, me, me.

Giving Johnson any credit for realising he was a busted flush is beyond generous.

Johnson has always tended to do something as a knee-jerk reaction, then have to explain how it wasn't what he meant, everyone else's fault for thinking he meant what he said.

[Have seen that there were 27 "I"s in his speech.]
 
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oyster

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Yesterday morning, a car rolled from the drive of a nearby house, and about 100 metres or so, down my drive, through my fence, demolishing the wall below the fence, ending up in my next-door neighbour's garden.

(Could have been far worse - if anyone had been in the way, or if it had moved just a metre or so left or right it could have done some house demolition.)

Seems someone failed to put handbrake on properly.

Car could be a write-off - as it went over the wall, it would have dropped about one and a half metres. As well as impact damage from hitting the wall and fence, and the hedge it ended up in.

Seemed a bit of a metaphor - we have a government that is out of control, and causing much damage, including to itself.

Big difference is that the car actually stopped.
 
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oyster

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“The party needs a fresh start to ensure it wins the next General Election and holds the seats it gained in 2019."

I wanted to say that they meant: “The party needs a fresh tart to ensure it wins the next General Election and holds the seats it gained in 2019."

Then I thought it was just cheap wordplay, probably highly and wrongly sexist, and I know so little about Mordaunt it would be an inappropriate thing to say. But I could help the words running through my head.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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that is true of the tories. None of the opposition parties is broken at the moment. That's why recent polls gave the tories only 14% of the potential votes, just 3 points above the LibDems.
That's probably what Johnson thought when he decided not to run. For once, he would be correct.
You are mixing popularity up with effectiveness /broken.
Anyone who thinks Labour isnt boken hasn't really been watching or listening to what they have to say or who is saying it.
Please explain their stance on any important issue. (take defence). Under Corbyn defence manifesto was an utter joke. ("I will finance Trident replacement but will never ever give order to use it or any other nuclear weapon"),
Does anyone actually know Statmer's stance on this, the economy, employment, Ofcourse not. He never states anything. Labour are stuck on the fence on every possible issue, just poke headed up and shout "we disagree". The entire lot of them, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem are beyond useless. If they were in industry, they, d all be sacked. Gross incompetence. The lot of them.
I certainly can't see any difference in any of their policies anymore. Fair point we could with Truss and Coathanger. How is Labour not broken, when it's only possible way into power is if Tories utterly implode. Then what will Starmer do, a bit of this, a bit of that and promote sex change ops for those wanting one.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Yesterday morning, a car rolled from the drive of a nearby house, and about 100 metres or so, down my drive, through my fence, demolishing the wall below the fence, ending up in my next-door neighbour's garden.

(Could have been far worse - if anyone had been in the way, or if it had moved just a metre or so left or right it could have done some house demolition.)

Seems someone failed to put handbrake on properly.

Car could be a write-off - as it went over the wall, it would have dropped about one and a half metres. As well as impact damage from hitting the wall and fence, and the hedge it ended up in.

Seemed a bit of a metaphor - we have a government that is out of control, and causing much damage, including to itself.

Big difference is that the car actually stopped.
A piccie might help:

49256
 

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