Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

Apologies for talking bikes for a minute but if Trump and May end up with protection tariffs from Europe and China then all bikes including e-bikes are going to be very expensive in both the USA and UK.
I know that May has said she wants the UK to be an open trade country but it is highly likely that we could end up with WTO tariffs....does anyone know the WTO tariff on e-bikes?
Trump has threatened a 20% tariff from China to USA.
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

Sorry tillson you are wrong again as the party that has the most number of Mps may not even have an overall majority. It can assume power and can form alliances to make up it's numbers to fake a majority with people it's supporters would never vote for in a million years and were not entitled to be in Government anyway. or just go ahead without one

The now-common practice of the party with the most seats forming the government has led to a widespread misconception among voters that a convention exists whereby the party with the most seats always gets to form the government. In fact, the most compelling reason for this practice is that the party with the most seats can survive confidence votes so long as the smaller party (or parties) simply abstain from confidence votes.
The way governments are formed is not democratic as the voters have no part in it, it is simply a political accommodation between politicians

Sorry, as I said you need a better argument.

We aren't going to agree over this.

My final word is that Donald Trump was elected as President of The United States within the rules of that country. It was the same for both candidates.

 

[Zlatan]

Perhaps we should get Trump to rewrite American constitution because OG disagrees with it...
I don't get his moaning, it could happen in any regional voting system. Only way to prevent is to add up all losing votes from regions and allocate representation for all those...its sort of what happens in Italy but brings about its own problems...much more likely to get hung parliaments and /or a no majority result....but could be argued its fairer... But its not the system we or USA use...end of..

 

[oldgroaner]

Perhaps we should get Trump to rewrite American constitution because OG disagrees with it...
I don't get his moaning, it could happen in any regional voting system. Only way to prevent is to add up all losing votes from regions and allocate representation for all those...its sort of what happens in Italy but brings about its own problems...much more likely to get hung parliaments and /or a no majority result....but could be argued its fairer... But its not the system we or USA use...end of..

Thanks for nothing... as usual

 

[oldgroaner]

We aren't going to agree over this.

My final word is that Donald Trump was elected as President of The United States within the rules of that country. It was the same for both candidates.

I'll agree we can't agree, sound good to you?

 

[oldgroaner]

how do you know that its a 'fact' that brexit voters threw out who they voted for pre brexit. perhaps the people who voted remain and those who didn't bother to vote at all, actually got up and participated this time. you assume that brexit voters have now changed their minds, as i said before, i believe the eu referendum was not based on what party you support.
i've voted labour all my life but voted leave, my choice. i vote in elections for the party i want to run the country. i would just like whichever party the country votes for to run it without being in the eu.

"how do you know that its a 'fact' that brexit voters threw out who they voted for pre brexit. perhaps the people who voted remain and those who didn't bother to vote at all, actually got up and participated this time."
Because many of them would have had to do so bearing in mind the support level of the Brexit vote? or the Majorities would not have changed so much?

 

[Woosh]

I...does anyone know the WTO tariff on e-bikes?
Trump has threatened a 20% tariff from China to USA.
KudosDave

I think it's 0%. At least on the electronics and batteries.

 

[Zlatan]

Thanks for nothing... as usual

If you already knew all that WTF you moaning about...oh I forgot...its your default setting...moan , moan...fecking moan and nothing else..

 

[boyabouttown]

"how do you know that its a 'fact' that brexit voters threw out who they voted for pre brexit. perhaps the people who voted remain and those who didn't bother to vote at all, actually got up and participated this time."
Because many of them would have had to do so bearing in mind the support level of the Brexit vote? or the Majorities would not have changed so much?

well thats not a 'fact' then is it, it's your opinion.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you already knew all that WTF you moaning about...oh I forgot...its your default setting...moan , moan...fecking moan and nothing else..

"Perhaps we should get Trump to rewrite American constitution because OG disagrees with it...
I don't get his moaning, it could happen in any regional voting system.

As usual you missed the point the President of the USA rules the WHOLE nation not individual regions, and should be elected by a public vote not by a bunch of Cronies elected in each region that can then vote completely differently if paid to do so, it lends itself to corruption
This was the very thing you were complaining about in the EU parliament!

That was why I said Thanks for nothing,
It was you, not I that was moaning.....

 

[oldgroaner]

well thats not a 'fact' then is it, it's your opinion.

What then constitutes a fact? something that can be presumed so from the evidence that shows it as the only likely outcome?
Or nothing less than a physical audited list of those who voted?
In the sense of lacking concrete and incontrovertible statistics, I agree it isn't a fact.
But there is a high enough probability for it to be rated as more likely that your opinion that the change of political choice has nothing to do with there being a change of heart over Brexit.
That is simply wishful thinking, for which there is far less evidence in support and the gap of credibility widens with each election result doesn't it?

When UKIP support takes a nose dive, the Conservative vote does too (remember they are the ones who will negotiate the actual terms)
The lib dems have scored far better than they could ever have hoped by opposing Brexit Directly.
And Finally labour, who are playing a stealthy game of fighting a rearguard action over terms and indeed the whole idea of leaving.

Where against all that is your evidence that the leave vote isn't melting away?
What I offered as indicators isn't an actual fact, I'll agree, but there are No indicators that favour the idea that the Brexit support is holding up, are there?

 

[Zlatan]

well thats not a 'fact' then is it, it's your opinion.

That's not fair. You should know by now OG's opinions are indisputable facts. Its well known.

 

[oldgroaner]

That's not fair. You should know by now OG's opinions are indisputable facts. Its well known.

Nice of you to suggest that, unfortunately as usual I have Done the naughty thing and agreed what I said wasn't actually a fact, but well enough supported by the evidence to be acceptable as one.

Still, you are carrying out a very necessary function, do keep up the good work, and perhaps an on topic observation as a "Gratuitous gift" occasionaly would also go down well

 

[tillson]

I'll agree we can't agree, sound good to you?

No, I disagree that we can't agree. I think we can agree. It's simply a case of finding a mutually agreeable solution to our disagreement. Does this sound agreeable to you.

 

[boyabouttown]

What then constitutes a fact? something that can be presumed so from the evidence that shows it as the only likely outcome?
Or nothing less than a physical audited list of those who voted?
In the sense of lacking concrete and incontrovertible statistics, I agree it isn't a fact.
But there is a high enough probability for it to be rated as more likely that your opinion that the change of political choice has nothing to do with there being a change of heart over Brexit.
That is simply wishful thinking, for which there is far less evidence in support and the gap of credibility widens with each election result doesn't it?

When UKIP support takes a nose dive, the Conservative vote does too (remember they are the ones who will negotiate the actual terms)
The lib dems have scored far better than they could ever have hoped by opposing Brexit Directly.
And Finally labour, who are playing a stealthy game of fighting a rearguard action over terms and indeed the whole idea of leaving.

Where against all that is your evidence that the leave vote isn't melting away?
What I offered as indicators isn't an actual fact, I'll agree, but there are No indicators that favour the idea that the Brexit support is holding up, is there?

you can read into however you wish, i offer no evidence either way, didn't realise i had to. i voted leave, there hasn't been another referendum, so as far as i'm concerned, thats done with, as i suspect so do many other people. we can now get on with voting for whichever group of people we would like to govern us. it might not be very logical for a leaver to vote labour but whats logic got to do with it.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, I disagree that we can't agree. I think we can agree. It's simply a case of finding a mutually agreeable solution to our disagreement. Does this sound agreeable to you.

I shall chance my arm and agree, as you are a very agreeable chap all things considered.

 

[oldgroaner]

you can read into however you wish, i offer no evidence either way, didn't realise i had to. i voted leave, there hasn't been another referendum, so as far as i'm concerned, thats done with, as i suspect so do many other people. we can now get on with voting for whichever group of people we would like to govern us. it might not be very logical for a leaver to vote labour but whats logic got to do with it.

What's logic got to do with it? well said indeed, and of course you have every right to vote whichever way you wish.
We are in complete agreement. in that respect.

 

[oldgroaner]

More of the writing on the wall for the Future of London
"
The head of the Irish central bank said on Tuesday that there will not be a "new London" in the European Union after Britain votes to leave the bloc.
Philip Lane, who is also a member of the European Central Bank's Governing Council, said Europe's future financial centres may be more fragmented geographically, even if they were integrated as part of a single market.
Cities around Europe are already vying for the potential new business, including financial centres in Germany, France, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Ireland.

So begins the Death by a thousand cuts of the main stay of the prosperity of this country.

A passporting deal will go ahead and be trumpeted as a "Triumph" for the Financial Power of Brexit Britain.

It will be the start of the end for London and bang goes 80% of the income of this country with it, with nothing to take it's place

The Goodness will flow; straight down the Drain

 

[oldtom]

A perfect image of evil personified.....



Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trump should have known it's difficult to make travel bans stick....after all a few months back we were threatening to ban him from the UK,then he became President and now we give him a red carpet state visit.
Strange times.
KudosDave