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Brexit, for once some facts.

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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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flecc said:
You are being disingenuous in reading far too much into my very brief post.

As I ended, "What chance for conscientious objectors?"

Having been forced by the state to remain, I can guess how anyone refusing to fight would be treated, not only then but for many years to follow. Unlike you I'm old enough remember how objectors and even those suspected as being objectors were treated in WW2.

On unjustified suspicion alone my own father suffered it.
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I don't think that's the only issue Flecc. Ukraine for years has been inundated with Russians supporting Putin. They, ve caused all sorts of issues for Ukraine.. Stopping men leave is also an attempt to stop those same folk leaving masquerading as displaced Ukrainians.
I know it's only natural and right to just accept folk coming over border but that comes with the unavoidable danger some won't be who authorities assume they are.
Probably not relevant, but could prove to be, big explosion in Paris this morning.???
I wonder what Putin has lined up for us after Truss's comments, our sending arms and sanctions. He'll do something. Novichok again??
Left Jamaica because of its dangers, looking attractive again. Think I, d rather have to deal with Yardies with machetes again than Russians with Novichok..
Same answer to Oyster above. Perhaps he, s trying to protect us??? There isn't any cash benefits for our greedy ministers on this one so perhaps it is a security concern.???
Besides 200k refugees to UK isn't a drop in ocean and insisting having family members here is a security check. It does seem crass expecting security checks but imagine other side of coin.
 
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flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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oyster said:
All Ukrainians coming through these schemes will be given leave for at least one year, be allowed to work and have access to public services, she added. Leveling Up Secretary Michael Gove will be placed in charge of the scheme.
www.politico.eu

UK expands visa scheme for Ukrainian refugees amid criticism

UK to keep biometric visa requirements and security checks on Ukrainian refugees.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

But with another hat on, I am expecting some questions about NHS access for refugees. I want to be able to explain exactly what any of them have to do to get needed medicines.

I'm going to carry on looking, just thought it silly not to ask here as some of you have an amazing variety of knowledge.
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This appears to come under Section 95 of the Immigration and Asylum act of 1999

She as the Secretary of State has made the ruling of the Ukrainians status as refugees in need, but I agree it would be better for the access to NHS services to be specifically mentioned.

Though that section is primarily about accommodation, it does include this in subsequent provisions:

"If the Secretary of State considers that the circumstances of a particular case are exceptional, he may provide support under section 95 in such other ways as he considers necessary to enable the supported person and his dependants (if any) to be supported."

Vague enough to cover all sorts of services.
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D

Danidl

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flecc said:
You are being disingenuous in reading far too much into my very brief post.

As I ended, "What chance for conscientious objectors?"

Having been forced by the state to remain, I can guess how anyone refusing to fight would be treated, not only then but for many years to follow. Unlike you I'm old enough remember how objectors and even those suspected as being objectors were treated in WW2.

On unjustified suspicion alone my own father suffered it.
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If so I apologise. But They still need people digging trenches, driving tractors, ploughing fields, cooking food , and fighting fires . Clearing rubble will be an ongoing problem for the next 3 years.
 
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flecc

flecc

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Danidl said:
If so I apologise. But They still need people digging trenches, driving tractors, ploughing fields, cooking food , and fighting fires . Clearing rubble will be an ongoing problem for the next 3 years.
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Indeed, but here in WW2, that was only the older men or women, never the younger men.

I well remember the wheat harvesting in WW2, all the scything being done by the old men. The rest was done by us kids, when necessary during term time marched out of school first thing to the fields. The older kids bound the sheaves, younger kids like me at 5 and 6 years old stacking the stooks.
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flecc

flecc

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oyster said:
I thought committees could demand attendance?
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Of citizens yes, but MPs and especially ministers enjoy parliamentary privilege to protect them from the law's less fortunate consequences.

Having said that I consider Kevin Foster's offer of fruit picking work as aid to Ukrainian refugees as nothing less than disgusting, given the circumstances of their departure. Making victims of victims.
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oyster

oyster

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flecc said:
Of citizens yes, but MPs and especially ministers enjoy parliamentary privilege to protect them from the law's less fortunate consequences.

Having said that I consider Kevin Foster's offer of fruit picking work as aid to Ukrainian refugees as nothing less than disgusting, given the circumstances of their departure. Making victims of victims.
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Maybe we'd prefer a Ukrainian refugee as immigration minster and leave fruit picking for Kevin Foster?
 
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flecc

flecc

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oyster said:
Think you missed one there:

Oneweb won't now be Put in orbit from Russia,...
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This theme could run and run. Pro Putin Russians for example might think Ukraine Put in its place.

Best not though, even the most unlikely having fun poked at them can become popular as a result.

It's what landed us with Boris Johnson, to our continuing cost.
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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flecc said:
Indeed, but here in WW2, that was only the older men or women, never the younger men.

I well remember the wheat harvesting in WW2, all the scything being done by the old men. The rest was done by us kids, when necessary during term time marched out of school first thing to the fields. The older kids bound the sheaves, younger kids like me at 5 and 6 years old stacking the stooks.
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I had a caravan in West Kerry in the 1980s ..it was a holiday home . Adjacent to which was a patchwork of hayfields . Actually we would enjoy a day or so with the local farmer saving the hay , and putting it into stacks .. no balers in fields then. Anyway I took a spin into a few tiny laneways adjacent ..we call them boreens , and came across a guy probably around 70, scything the field and with his equally aged sisters and using the old horse drawn rick to transport the hay. The juxtaposition was incredible in that at the same time I heard the sonic boom of Concorde as it headed into the Atlantic.
 
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flecc

flecc

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Danidl said:
came across a guy probably around 70, scything the field and with his equally aged sisters and using the old horse drawn rick to transport the hay.
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Environmental heros. The damage we've done since that was commonplace is incalculable and we are only now trying to face up to it. Rather unsuccessfully it has to be said.
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Danidl

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Zlatan said:
nationalinterest.org

Is NATO Ready To Repel Russia in the Baltics?

NATO offers deterrence through the promise of escalation.
nationalinterest.org nationalinterest.org

The plan has always been not to hold the Baltics but to escalate conflict to places Russia would lose.. But would a modern NATO actually do that?
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That was then ,this is now. I doubt anyone would have expected the shoulder mounted LAWs to be as cost effective as they are proving to be... 20k to take out 5 enemy and a million quid tank .
 
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Zlatan

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Danidl said:
That was then ,this is now. I doubt anyone would have expected the shoulder mounted LAWs to be as cost effective as they are proving to be... 20k to take out 5 enemy and a million quid tank .
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Agree re effectiveness on NLAW and other systems but as Flecc said the number of troops in each Baltic country is minimal. Air power, Stingers, NLAW etc would take their toll but its unrealistic to think forces in Baltics could prevent invasion.
Articles last comment is this was strategy for 1949 and virtually same now. If Putin wants Baltics, he'll take them. Poland probably different, US battle brigades of 8000 troops plus Polish forces would certainly hold any advance up... Don't think that's case in Baltics..
Screenshot_20220304_172747.jpg

Article was written 2016. NLAW was already in use.

My point is, having grabbed Baltics (and Moldova?) would NATO have commitment to escalate conflict. (ie actions as mentioned in link) with all repercussions that entails.??
 
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oyster

oyster

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Danidl said:
That was then ,this is now. I doubt anyone would have expected the shoulder mounted LAWs to be as cost effective as they are proving to be... 20k to take out 5 enemy and a million quid tank .
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Do LAWs work on tanks when someone is poking their head and shoulders out of the top?

Just asking for a friend.

('struth, is she sponsored by a shampoo?)
 
oyster

oyster

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Zlatan said:
www.newsletter.co.uk

NI-built missiles 'may have halted 40-mile-long Russian convoy'

A former NATO intelligence Colonel from Co Tyrone has explained that the 40 mile long Russian military convoy in Ukraine may have been halted by ‘built in Belfast’ NLAW shoulder mounted missiles - and why they are so effective.
www.newsletter.co.uk www.newsletter.co.uk

??? Built in Belfast.!
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Or is it tyres?

Friday 04 March 2022 12:59 pm
Cheap Chinese tires blamed for Russian convoy unable to reach Kyiv
www.cityam.com

Cheap Chinese tires blamed for Russian convoy unable to reach Kyiv - City AM

Cheap Chinese tires have been blamed for a Russian convoy of armoured vehicles being unable to reach Kyiv.
www.cityam.com www.cityam.com
 
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